Greece struggles to find creditors

[Queen Titania]

It would be a while before it would have brought you home any bacon, I suspect.

I never really was into buying property, I should have done but ------------ now if I had the chance again, I would just buy Land at home.

It's a long-term investment. My first house was bought on a 30 year mortgage, and it is now a rental property, but for a property purchased strictly as an investment, I would go with a 15 year mortgage and get it paid off. Then it would be bringing in money when I'm too old to go out and earn. Between a couple or 3 income streams like that, plus my military pension and disability, I should be able to support my self when I'm past working age.[/QUOTE]

I hope you manage it, I wouldn't like being a landlady I don't think - Are we ever too old to earn? Not having too is a nice thought but don't many of us prefer just to 'morf' into another profession? Still to be doing something ---

I like the thought of now, as 'winter' approaches, using my brain rather than my body to make a 'buck' ---

 

[freyasman]

It's a long-term investment. My first house was bought on a 30 year mortgage, and it is now a rental property, but for a property purchased strictly as an investment, I would go with a 15 year mortgage and get it paid off. Then it would be bringing in money when I'm too old to go out and earn. Between a couple or 3 income streams like that, plus my military pension and disability, I should be able to support my self when I'm past working age.

I hope you manage it, I wouldn't like being a landlady I don't think - Are we ever too old to earn? Not having too is a nice thought but don't many of us prefer just to 'morf' into another profession? Still to be doing something ---

I like the thought of now, as 'winter' approaches, using my brain rather than my body to make a 'buck' --- [/QUOTE]
I like the stability; people always need a decent little house or condo to live in. I should have kept my place in TN and rented it out. Beautiful 2 story townhouse condo on the Cumberland River with a fireplace right near Ft Campbell. I could have kept that rented to young officers and their families for the rest of my life, easy.

 

[Queen Titania]

I hope you manage it, I wouldn't like being a landlady I don't think - Are we ever too old to earn? Not having too is a nice thought but don't many of us prefer just to 'morf' into another profession? Still to be doing something ---

I like the thought of now, as 'winter' approaches, using my brain rather than my body to make a 'buck' ---

I like the stability; people always need a decent little house or condo to live in. I should have kept my place in TN and rented it out. Beautiful 2 story townhouse condo on the Cumberland River with a fireplace right near Ft Campbell. I could have kept that rented to young officers and their families for the rest of my life, easy.[/QUOTE]

Ahhhh, we all have regrets

Never mind, find another xxx

 

[georgephillip]

The Roots of the Greek Debt Crisis...
"The roots of the crisis lie far away from Greece; they lie in the architecture of European banking. When the euro came into existence in 1999, not only did the Greeks get to borrow like the Germans, everyone’s banks got to borrow and lend in what was effectively a cheap foreign currency. And with super-low rates, countries clamoring to get into the euro, and a continent-wide credit boom underway, it made sense for national banks to expand private lending as far as the euro could reach."

Over the first decade of the euro, private European banks expanded their asset footprints massively, especially into the periphery of Europe. By 2010 when the crisis hit, only a small part of impaired assets were Greek.

"Greece made up two percent of the eurozone in 2010, and Greece's revised budget deficit that year was 15% of the country's GDP--that's 0.3% of the eurozone's economy. In other words, the Greek deficit was a rounding error, not a reason to panic...Unless
"Unless, of course, the folks holding Greek debts, those big banks in the eurozone core, had, over the prior decade, grown to twice the size (in terms of assets) of—and with operational leverage ratios (assets divided by liabilities) twice as high as—their 'too big to fail' American counterparts, which they had done.

"In such an over-levered world, if Greece defaulted, those banks would need to sell other similar sovereign assets to cover the losses. But all those sell contracts hitting the market at once would trigger a bank run throughout the bond markets of the eurozone that could wipe out core European banks."

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/greece/2015-07-07/pain-athens

 

[Queen Titania]

The Roots of the Greek Debt Crisis...
"The roots of the crisis lie far away from Greece; they lie in the architecture of European banking. When the euro came into existence in 1999, not only did the Greeks get to borrow like the Germans, everyone’s banks got to borrow and lend in what was effectively a cheap foreign currency. And with super-low rates, countries clamoring to get into the euro, and a continent-wide credit boom underway, it made sense for national banks to expand private lending as far as the euro could reach."

Over the first decade of the euro, private European banks expanded their asset footprints massively, especially into the periphery of Europe. By 2010 when the crisis hit, only a small part of impaired assets were Greek.

"Greece made up two percent of the eurozone in 2010, and Greece's revised budget deficit that year was 15% of the country's GDP--that's 0.3% of the eurozone's economy. In other words, the Greek deficit was a rounding error, not a reason to panic...Unless
"Unless, of course, the folks holding Greek debts, those big banks in the eurozone core, had, over the prior decade, grown to twice the size (in terms of assets) of—and with operational leverage ratios (assets divided by liabilities) twice as high as—their 'too big to fail' American counterparts, which they had done.

"In such an over-levered world, if Greece defaulted, those banks would need to sell other similar sovereign assets to cover the losses. But all those sell contracts hitting the market at once would trigger a bank run throughout the bond markets of the eurozone that could wipe out core European banks."

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/greece/2015-07-07/pain-athens

Ah but 'the assets' --- The US dumped a lot of their rotten 'debts' on the EU ( B bundles disguised and A bundles) and in turn the EU dumped them all on Greece. As well as yes of course differing economies cannot be regulated on the same terms as each other.

Russia, China and the Brics are, under the table, going to help Greece --- A lot of this is due to a US blocking of Russias and Europes wish to join up --- and but there are so many players in this, all looking after their own interests, so it is very very complex in fact, isn't it? Not a simple matter at all. But it is possible that through Greece the two, EU and Brics, will manage to join hands against the Dollar.

Greece has more Gold than the rest of Europe put together --- Its mines being owned by the usual suspects under the guise of being a Canadian co --- did you know?

''Greece’s parliament has backed a debt restructuring deal, sealing that which is a “national responsibility,” PM Tsipras said during passionate debates. The reform package has already received ‘positive’ reviews from creditors ahead of a crucial EU summit.

Following lengthy Friday night debates in the Greek parliament, the lawmakers have voted to authorize the Greek delegation’s sealing of a deal with the country’s international creditors in accordance with conditions presented earlier this week.''

http://rt.com/news/273043-greece-debt-proposals-parliament/

At first I thought that Greece would be better out all together but, that was childish, I now realize that what is going on in the back corridors is far more important --- such as the Russians pipe line and so on --- the deal is for 2 billion where as the real cost is probably only 1 billion and so money shall be syphoned in.

But a rather horrid ps is that the Greeks are giving their Ports and something else ? away, it is in the deal

 

[georgephillip]

Greece has more Gold than the rest of Europe put together --- Its mines being owned by the usual suspects under the guise of being a Canadian co --- did you know?

I did not know about Greek gold. I suppose this is another good reminder of capitalism's "Golden Rule": He who owns the gold makes the rules? Do you recall what Reginald McKenna told the shareholders of Midland Bank in 1924 about private for-profit banks controlling the credit of the nation? McKenna thought this allowed the bankers to direct the policy of government "and hold in the hollow of their hands the destiny of the people."

 

[Queen Titania]

I did not know about Greek gold. I suppose this is another good reminder of capitalism's "Golden Rule": He who owns the gold makes the rules? Do you recall what Reginald McKenna told the shareholders of Midland Bank in 1924 about private for-profit banks controlling the credit of the nation? McKenna thought this allowed the bankers to direct the policy of government "and hold in the hollow of their hands the destiny of the people."

Disraeli said the same in so many words --- I forget the quote off hand.

 

[georgephillip]

Disraeli said the same in so many words --- I forget the quote off hand.

“'The modern banking system manufactures money out of nothing. The process is, perhaps, the most astounding piece of sleight of hand that was ever invented. Banks can in fact inflate, mint and un-mint the modern ledger-entry currency.' Major L L B Angus."

“'The study of money, above all other fields in economics, is one in which complexity is used to disguise truth or to evade truth, not to reveal it. The process by which banks create money is so simple the mind is repelled. With something so important, a deeper mystery seems only decent.' John Kenneth Galbraith (1908- ), former professor of economics at Harvard, writing in ‘Money: Whence it came, where it went’ (1975)."

It is a little difficult, for me, at least, to wrap my mind around the possibility of a government creating money/credit that doesn't require interest.

http://www.themoneymasters.com/the-money-masters/famous-quotations-on-banking/

 

[Queen Titania]

“'The modern banking system manufactures money out of nothing. The process is, perhaps, the most astounding piece of sleight of hand that was ever invented. Banks can in fact inflate, mint and un-mint the modern ledger-entry currency.' Major L L B Angus."

“'The study of money, above all other fields in economics, is one in which complexity is used to disguise truth or to evade truth, not to reveal it. The process by which banks create money is so simple the mind is repelled. With something so important, a deeper mystery seems only decent.' John Kenneth Galbraith (1908- ), former professor of economics at Harvard, writing in ‘Money: Whence it came, where it went’ (1975)."

It is a little difficult, for me, at least, to wrap my mind around the possibility of a government creating money/credit that doesn't require interest.

http://www.themoneymasters.com/the-money-masters/famous-quotations-on-banking/

It is such a con --- but they've got us!

 

[georgephillip]

It is such a con --- but they've got us!

Is the answer as simple as constructing a central bank without private bankers?

"Organization[edit]
Under state law, the bank is the State of North Dakota doing business as the Bank of North Dakota.[1] The state and its agencies are required to place their funds in the bank, but local governments are not required to do so."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_of_North_Dakota

 

[Queen Titania]

Is the answer as simple as constructing a central bank without private bankers?

"Organization[edit]
Under state law, the bank is the State of North Dakota doing business as the Bank of North Dakota.[1] The state and its agencies are required to place their funds in the bank, but local governments are not required to do so."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_of_North_Dakota

I honestly don't know --- There were some very decent Bankers here once upon a time who have now all been eaten up by the biggies --- I don't think anything can stay decent if it grows too large, simply by nature of being too large, and that includes Gov which is rarely if ever decent in the first place.

 

[georgephillip]

I honestly don't know --- There were some very decent Bankers here once upon a time who have now all been eaten up by the biggies --- I don't think anything can stay decent if it grows too large, simply by nature of being too large, and that includes Gov which is rarely if ever decent in the first place.

IMHO, the problem arises when private bankers like Rothschild LOAN money to government since those loans must be repaid with interest. If the solution is as simple as demanding government create and circulate all currency and credits needed to satisfy its own spending POWER along with the buying power of consumers...

 

[Queen Titania]

IMHO, the problem arises when private bankers like Rothschild LOAN money to government since those loans must be repaid with interest. If the solution is as simple as demanding government create and circulate all currency and credits needed to satisfy its own spending POWER along with the buying power of consumers...

Oliver Cromwell was in debt to 'Rothschilds' --- and they did the dirty on the English after Waterloo enabling them to take The City ---- it all goes way back.

 

[Fast Eddy]

I read that they are thinking of bailing Greece out by the IMF. Just great, the IMF is about 80% US money and its loans are tax payer guarantees. The European union issues looks like it landed in our lap.

 

[georgephillip]

Oliver Cromwell was in debt to 'Rothschilds' --- and they did the dirty on the English after Waterloo enabling them to take The City ---- it all goes way back.

There is a three hour and thirty minute video called the Money Masters which takes a look at exactly how far back the public vs private banking debate goes.

Cromwell's service to private bankers is mentioned as is the possibility private bankers were behind the murder of Abraham Lincoln in the US. For thousands of years, society has been divided over the question of whether or not there are too few or too many rich people in the world; private bankers seem to believe the latter.

 

[Queen Titania]

There is a three hour and thirty minute video called the Money Masters which takes a look at exactly how far back the public vs private banking debate goes.

Cromwell's service to private bankers is mentioned as is the possibility private bankers were behind the murder of Abraham Lincoln in the US. For thousands of years, society has been divided over the question of whether or not there are too few or too many rich people in the world; private bankers seem to believe the latter.

For me it isn't about 'Rich People' ---- It is that Bankers in particular are only interested in speculation and co - there is no Love, no loyalty, no humanity, no aspiration --- It is a literally bloody and wicked nonsense.

Rich people per say is not the problem it is who and what they do with it ---- everything now is against civilization in order to own civilization so that it must in the end be destroyed --- in order that is is owned completely. Like a possessive lover.

A real lover is otherwise eh?

 

[georgephillip]

I read that they are thinking of bailing Greece out by the IMF. Just great, the IMF is about 80% US money and its loans are tax payer guarantees. The European union issues looks like it landed in our lap.

It doesn't appear as if the EU fiscal hawks are in any mood for compromise:
"With Greece on the edge of financial and social implosion, eurozone finance ministers met to decide on the country’s fate and on what to do about its debt crisis, after experts from the troika of creditors said that new fiscal rigour proposals from Athens were good enough to form 'the basis for negotiations'.

"But the German finance minister, Wolfgang Schäuble, dismissed that view, supported by a number of northern and eastern European states. 'These proposals cannot build the basis for a completely new, three-year [bailout] programme, as requested by Greece,' said a German finance ministry paper. It called for Greece to be expelled from the eurozone for a minimum of five years and demanded that the Greek government transfer €50bn of state assets to an outside agency for sell-off."
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/11/greece-euro-exit-bailout-alexis-tsipras
In 2010 the Greek economy comprised 2% of the eurozone and Greece's budget deficit was 15% of GDP which translates as 0.3% of the eurozone economy.

That means Greek debt was a rounding error and not a reason to panic UNLESS big European banks were over-leveraged in which case those banks would have been forced to sell other similar assets to cover their losses. HOWEVER, if all those sell contracts hit the market at one time, that would trigger a bank run throughout the eurozone bond markets that could WIPE OUT European banks.

Some on the left believe what is happening today in Greece is simply Round 2 of what happened in the US in 2008...

 

[Queen Titania]

I read that they are thinking of bailing Greece out by the IMF. Just great, the IMF is about 80% US money and its loans are tax payer guarantees. The European union issues looks like it landed in our lap.

All the bad mortgages from the US were dumped on the EU who in turn dumped them all on Greece --- so, if it were to happen blame Wall St, where all this began, not the Greeks.


Related ---

A former Goldman Sachs banker suggested Greece start legal action against his former employer over complex financial deals that helped the country hide its national debt in 2001 and continue borrowing despite its poor economy, the Independent reports.

http://rt.com/business/273208-greece-goldman-debt-lawsuit/

 

[Queen Titania]

There is a three hour and thirty minute video called the Money Masters which takes a look at exactly how far back the public vs private banking debate goes.

Cromwell's service to private bankers is mentioned as is the possibility private bankers were behind the murder of Abraham Lincoln in the US. For thousands of years, society has been divided over the question of whether or not there are too few or too many rich people in the world; private bankers seem to believe the latter.

I'll look later xxx

 

[georgephillip]

For me it isn't about 'Rich People' ---- It is that Bankers in particular are only interested in speculation and co - there is no Love, no loyalty, no humanity, no aspiration --- It is a literally bloody and wicked nonsense.

Rich people per say is not the problem it is who and what they do with it ---- everything now is against civilization in order to own civilization so that it must in the end be destroyed --- in order that is is owned completely. Like a possessive lover.

A real lover is otherwise eh?

Maybe Napoleon knew the answer?
"'When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes… Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain.' – Napoleon Bonaparte, Emperor of France, 1815"
http://www.themoneymasters.com/the-money-masters/famous-quotations-on-banking/
I do wonder if "rich people" would even exist in a world without war and debt? I'm relatively confidant the first rich people would never have come into existence in the absence of human slavery.