Liberal Economics 101.

[DefeatObama]

The Reagan administration proved deficit spending doesn't matter....at least that is what Dick Cheney believed to be true as Reagan tripled the national debt. Reagan raised taxes, Bush 41 raised taxes, Clinton raised taxes....the result was that by the end of Clinton's term we had a surplus. "W" said that the suplus

so the key to surplus is raising taxes? that part I get.

do you believe there is a level at which government spending becomes excessive or should all private wealth be at the disposal of the government ? (you know like it says in the constitution)

 

[middleview]

The key to having an intelligent conversation is to have at least two informed participants....I was just trying to help Sgt Staples by informing him of the truth. He seemed to be a tad underinformed.

If you want to have a conversation about how to budget to work our way into the black, start another thread.

 

[DefeatObama]

Bullshit. A mindless Winger talking point.

from your years of owning a business

 

[Woolleybugger]

They will never grasp the fundamental issue with soveriegn which is that it is very manageable as long as you tax yourself enough to control its growth over generations. The only way to retire it is to run a surplus. Conservatives hate a surplus for it represents over taxation to them. So, when we even come close to a surplus, they immediately scream for tax rebates because "it's their money". Now a responsible conservative would first insist that all surplus taxes be used to retire debt until it is down to a reasonable level. But conservatives are not reasonable are they? Nor are they willing to sacrifice anything at all to be prudent, they think the other guy has to do the sacrificing not them.

 

[DefeatObama]

The key to having an intelligent conversation is to have at least two informed participants....I was just trying to help Sgt Staples by informing him of the truth. He seemed to be a tad underinformed.

If you want to have a conversation about how to budget to work our way into the black, start another thread.

other than zeroing out the defense budget what spending do you advocate cutting?

 

[OldGaffer]

from your years of owning a business

I opened my first business in 1974, when did you open your first business?

 

[middleview]

you think this proves something?

 

[DefeatObama]

they immediately scream for tax rebates because "it's their money".

it's not?

Now a responsible conservative would first insist that all surplus taxes be used to retire debt until it is down to a reasonable level.

so you now want conservatives to absolve those who for decades, have opposed conservative principles in thought and deed? you now want conservative to be flexible to deal with the mess that liberals have made with our fiscal situation?

the fact is that revenues increased to the treasury after the bush tax cuts.

since revenues increased AND the debt increased, spending increased ahead of revenues.

that wasn't bad enough.

obama tacked an additional 1.5 TRILLION of debt - ANNUALLY - on top.

we'll blow through two debt ceilings in this fiscal year alone.

how do you figure it's 'conservatives' and our inflexibility that is at the root cause of our problems.

bonus question: since the drones blathered on incessently about war spending being the root cause of our fiscal woes, and since we're out of iraq, how is it that this years barry budget deficit is equivalent to last years?

 

[Lapcat]

Uh....no. The key to havng an intelligent conversation is....to NOT have one of the participants in that conversation be a leftie (much less, a leftie with a typical leftie "superiority" complex).

And as usual, leftie "thinks" that his truth is the ONLY truth worth mentioning.

The key to having an intelligent conversation is to have at least two informed participants....I was just trying to help Sgt Staples by informing him of the truth. He seemed to be a tad underinformed.

If you want to have a conversation about how to budget to work our way into the black, start another thread.

 

[OldGaffer]

What was the deficit in 2000, the year Bush got elected? What did Bush do in 2001 that changed the 2000 deficit? Bonus question, who was the last Republican President to submit a balanced budget?

Oh, and what year did you start your first business?

 

[middleview]

Convenient memory

it's not?



so you now want conservatives to absolve those who for decades, have opposed conservative principles in thought and deed? you now want conservative to be flexible to deal with the mess that liberals have made with our fiscal situation?

the fact is that revenues increased to the treasury after the bush tax cuts.

since revenues increased AND the debt increased, spending increased ahead of revenues.

that wasn't bad enough.

obama tacked an additional 1.5 TRILLION of debt - ANNUALLY - on top.

we'll blow through two debt ceilings in this fiscal year alone.

how do you figure it's 'conservatives' and our inflexibility that is at the root cause of our problems.

bonus question: since the drones blathered on incessently about war spending being the root cause of our fiscal woes, and since we're out of iraq, how is it that this years barry budget deficit is equivalent to last years?

The money is of course theirs. The intelligent use of that money is what is being discussed. Bush argued that the surplus is "your money, you know best how to spend it". That was not a conservative statement. I'm a fiscal conservative and was alarmed at Reagan's budgets. He cut taxes and increased spending. He tripled the national debt and you think that was conservative? Bush41 raised taxes, but still added another trillion to the national debt. Clinton increased taxes, cut spending, produced a surplus (depending on who's numbers you use)....

You ignore that Reagan used deficit spending because of the economy. His deficits helped reduce unemployment....and he raised taxes to attempt to bring the deficits under control. The result of the economic policies of Reagan Bush was another recession during Bush's term. Clinton took office during a recession. As we recovered he raised taxes and cut spending in a way that did not radically change the economic situation. Bush took office and was saying that we have a surplus, let me give it back to you (which was certain to make the deficit worse)....then the recession of 2001 started and Bush was saying we need the tax cuts to spur the economy.....that is because he wanted tax cuts and didn't care about the purpose or results. Read Paul O'Neill's "Price of Loyalty".....

Face it, Bush trashed the economy with his tax cuts, wars, prescription drug program and the misuse of the SEC and other government agencies and their enforcment roles.

Obama is using deficit spending to stabilize the economy and encourage growth. He has used tax cuts as Reagan did. He has used deficit spending to keep those hit by the Bush recession from taking too hard a hit. Is that a bad thing? Yes we will have to increase taxes and cut spending in the future, but we have to do it in a transitional way, not a revolutionary way. Ron Paul would throw us into a depression....the others, Newt..Santorum and Romney would have a negative impact in the near term.

 

[middleview]

What was the deficit in 2000, the year Bush got elected? What did Bush do in 2001 that changed the 2000 deficit? Bonus question, who was the last Republican President to submit a balanced budget?

Oh, and what year did you start your first business?

I thought I'd point out that Bush did not submit a budget until 2001 and it wouldn't go into effect until September of 2001. His deficits would certainly have been impacted by the 911 attacks, the airline and travel industry bailout and the war in Afghanistan.

He made his deficits much worse by invading Iraq in 2003 and the passage of the Medicare drug bill (and tax cuts)....

 

[middleview]

Since I already pointed out how dishonest Sgt Staples top post is...I don't need to cover that ground again.

 

[Lukey]

I thought I'd point out that Bush did not submit a budget until 2001 and it wouldn't go into effect until September of 2001. His deficits would certainly have been impacted by the 911 attacks, the airline and travel industry bailout and the war in Afghanistan.

He made his deficits much worse by invading Iraq in 2003 and the passage of the Medicare drug bill (and tax cuts)....

And his 40% increase in education spending and all that foreign aid he implemented as a "compassionate conservative." What he WAS was a Kloset Keynesian...

 

[Lapcat]

According to who? You?

BWAhahahaha!

Since I already pointed out how dishonest Sgt Staples top post is...I don't need to cover that ground again.

 

[middleview]

According to who? You?

BWAhahahaha!

Feel free to provide evidence supporting his nonsense.

 

[Lukey]

you think this proves something?

Yes. It is a proxy for new business creation. The capital class isn't looking to tie up their money in a long term investment because they see all Obama's efforts to confiscate as much of it as possible and they want to be able to move it off shore if it gets too bad. This is why raising taxes on the rich never works. They will find ways to avoid paying them.

 

[middleview]

And his 40% increase in education spending and all that foreign aid he implemented as a "compassionate conservative." What he WAS was a Kloset Keynesian...

When you are talking about a deficit that became $1.4 trillion in his last year, the money spent on education or foreign aid are trivial....we spent at least a trillion in Iraq and some experts now say it was over $3 trillion...

 

[Lukey]

When you are talking about a deficit that became $1.4 trillion in his last year, the money spent on education or foreign aid are trivial....we spent at least a trillion in Iraq and some experts now say it was over $3 trillion...

You are preaching to the choir here. I was probably the first person in the country to suggest the Iraq war was going to cost a trillion $ by the time it was over (I said that on Slate within six months of the invasion). I was roundly denounced (and even laughed at) at the time, but I was, of course, 100% correct.

 

[middleview]

You are preaching to the choir here. I was probably the first person in the country to suggest the Iraq war was going to cost a trillion $ by the time it was over (I said that on Slate within six months of the invasion). I was roundly denounced (and even laughed at) at the time, but I was, of course, 100% correct.

If you were laughed at it was by Sgt Rock, Old Man River, Predicto or the other Bush low lifes....I heard Andrew Natsios on Nightline say that it was going to cost no more than $1.7 billion and that they were allocating no more money for rebuilding Iraq. The bill that Kerry was supposed to have voted for before he voted against was an appropriation bill for the war. The first version was a loan to Iraq. The administration and the repubs voted against it. The bill came back with the money as a flat out gift and Kerry voted against it but the repubs passed it.