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Brexit update.

Champagne Socialists?

Once the Labour Party did stand for the working classes but the Unions are now reliant on the EU - Unions have a huge say in Labour policies and for some reason, in contradiction, Labour have been courting the Muslim vote and the youth vote whilst betraying their old membership - Corbyn was always anti EU but has completely about turned and is for remaining now.
Many in the old Labour strongholds will never vote Tory but are turning from Labour which is where the Brexit Party come in.

Brexit is a cross party question but yes those who have suffered most because of the EU have been the working classes - Thatcher certainly didn't help and they hate the Tories even more then they did before because of her.

The Media here is pro EU - but then they all get subs from the EU so of course they are - their faces when the Leave vote won was hilarious - dispare looked out at us from the box, they just didn't understand why.

No Brexit was not only about mass immigration, or rather the invasion of the soulless hordes but yes, we know that there is an intent to fid the world of any national identities ---- and we were never asked. Of course we are going to push back -----------
The Media here is pro EU - but then they all get subs from the EU so of course they are - their faces when the Leave vote won was hilarious - dispare looked out at us from the box, they just didn't understand why.

No Brexit was not only about mass immigration, or rather the invasion of the soulless hordes but yes, we know that there is an intent to fid the world of any national identities ---- and we were never asked. Of course we are going to push back
How does your military feel about Brexit?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37317765

"The British decision to leave the European Union in the wake of the Brexit referendum has given renewed impetus to the idea that the EU should have its own army.

"The UK - by far the most capable European military player, along with France - has always been a brake on such an idea, fearing unnecessary duplication with Nato.

"The UK went along with EU plans up to a point. A British army light mechanised infantry unit (2nd Battalion the Yorkshire regiment) currently forms the core of one of the EU's 1,500-strong battle groups: a rapid-reaction force capable of being deployed to a crisis zone at short notice."
 
How does your military feel about Brexit?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37317765

"The British decision to leave the European Union in the wake of the Brexit referendum has given renewed impetus to the idea that the EU should have its own army.

"The UK - by far the most capable European military player, along with France - has always been a brake on such an idea, fearing unnecessary duplication with Nato.

"The UK went along with EU plans up to a point. A British army light mechanised infantry unit (2nd Battalion the Yorkshire regiment) currently forms the core of one of the EU's 1,500-strong battle groups: a rapid-reaction force capable of being deployed to a crisis zone at short notice."
Mmmm a sticking point!

When the European project first began a 'defense' community ( EDC) connected to a 'political' community (EPC) was the plan. The EDC Treaty was signed in 1952 but the French refused to ratify it, not liking being on the same side as Germany - but during the 1980s -'90s whenever I was visiting France their News was always full of Germany and France forming a Military - and now for many years they have been playing their war games all over Europe as one army as apart from NATO.

We know that May went a long way to signing us up and over to the EU Military --- there is a video in this link of Lord Blackheath being silenced by Blunkett ( a nasty Blair person) in the Lords when he tried to bring it up.

https://www.ukcolumn.org/article/hero-brexit-lord-james-blackheath-threatened-over-eu-defence-union

I can't quote it now, I'm too tired to find it, but in the Withdrawal Agreement of Boris's - it reads as though the intend in the end deal is that we are both separate Military powers but well in ordinary language it just states that we shall neither of us fight each other or help others to do - that's normal eh? But yup ---- yup - we shall have to wait and see where the WA takes us in the end. I should imagine they are working so closely together now that it won't stop 'cos of Brexit - no matter what is in the small print - Military contracts, eh?

The Military are not happy about a lot of things Tory and Corbyn they used a photo of as target practice ---- Boris is not Blair or May or Cameron though --- we shall just have to wait and see.
 
Do you have any idea when this ordeal will end?

https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=ff67a36b-041f-492e-ad86-b1422ffee62c

"Michel Barnier raises prospect of extending Brexit transition until 2022 despite Tory denialsThe Independent

  • "Michel Barnier has raised the prospect of the Brexit transition period being extended until 2022, heaping pressure on one of the core messages of Boris Johnson’s election campaign.
  • Today, the EU’s chief negotiator warned that the prime minister would face a 'moment of truth' in the summer of next year and suggested that talks might not be concluded by then.
  • Cabinet minister Liz Truss had said on Monday night that 'we will not be extending the Brexit transition period beyond 2020', arguing that 'the British people have waited long enough for Brexit'".
Would you be willing to wait until 2022 for an equitable departure?
 
Do you have any idea when this ordeal will end?

https://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=ff67a36b-041f-492e-ad86-b1422ffee62c

"Michel Barnier raises prospect of extending Brexit transition until 2022 despite Tory denialsThe Independent

  • "Michel Barnier has raised the prospect of the Brexit transition period being extended until 2022, heaping pressure on one of the core messages of Boris Johnson’s election campaign.
  • Today, the EU’s chief negotiator warned that the prime minister would face a 'moment of truth' in the summer of next year and suggested that talks might not be concluded by then.
  • Cabinet minister Liz Truss had said on Monday night that 'we will not be extending the Brexit transition period beyond 2020', arguing that 'the British people have waited long enough for Brexit'".
Would you be willing to wait until 2022 for an equitable departure?
It will be our choice - No, we can't wait that long and Boris knows it. Of course the EU will draw it out as long as possible, they want/need our money, but Boris knows that ordinary people and business do not want to wait - another year is long enough. Gov can't function properly when we are still caught in the EU but with no say in it. We are also liable for EU debts until we are out and the EU is in trouble.

Sadly our MP https://www.wscountytimes.co.uk/news/politics/arundel-and-south-downs-tory-mp-nick-herbert-not-standing-for-re-election-1-9131061 has resigned, lots of MPs have. I didn't like the way he voted often, he always towed the Party Line, but he was a good MP for his constituency and helped a lot of people. When I complained about idiots ( NGO training) dragging screaming women in burkas out of the woods and shooting in the air onto a small country road where kids often ride their ponies he had it stopped immediately.
 
It will be our choice - No, we can't wait that long and Boris knows it. Of course the EU will draw it out as long as possible, they want/need our money, but Boris knows that ordinary people and business do not want to wait - another year is long enough. Gov can't function properly when we are still caught in the EU but with no say in it. We are also liable for EU debts until we are out and the EU is in trouble.

Sadly our MP https://www.wscountytimes.co.uk/news/politics/arundel-and-south-downs-tory-mp-nick-herbert-not-standing-for-re-election-1-9131061 has resigned, lots of MPs have. I didn't like the way he voted often, he always towed the Party Line, but he was a good MP for his constituency and helped a lot of people. When I complained about idiots ( NGO training) dragging screaming women in burkas out of the woods and shooting in the air onto a small country road where kids often ride their ponies he had it stopped immediately.
It will be our choice - No, we can't wait that long and Boris knows it. Of course the EU will draw it out as long as possible, they want/need our money, but Boris knows that ordinary people and business do not want to wait - another year is long enough. Gov can't function properly when we are still caught in the EU but with no say in it. We are also liable for EU debts until we are out and the EU is in trouble.
What motives do you ascribe to Boris burying your intelligence agencies' report on possible Russian perfidy in Brexit?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_2016_Brexit_referendum
  • "2018 January, a US Senate minority report suggested possible ways Russia may have influenced the Brexit campaign.[26] It stated,[27]
"' The Russian government has sought to influence democracy in the United Kingdom through disinformation, cyber hacking, and corruption. While a complete picture of the scope and nature of Kremlin interference in the UK's June 2016 referendum is still emerging, Prime Minister Theresa May and the UK government have condemned the Kremlin’s active measures, and various UK government entities, including the Electoral Commission and parliamentarians, have launched investigations into different aspects of possible Russian government meddling.'"
 
What motives do you ascribe to Boris burying your intelligence agencies' report on possible Russian perfidy in Brexit?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_interference_in_the_2016_Brexit_referendum
  • "2018 January, a US Senate minority report suggested possible ways Russia may have influenced the Brexit campaign.[26] It stated,[27]
"' The Russian government has sought to influence democracy in the United Kingdom through disinformation, cyber hacking, and corruption. While a complete picture of the scope and nature of Kremlin interference in the UK's June 2016 referendum is still emerging, Prime Minister Theresa May and the UK government have condemned the Kremlin’s active measures, and various UK government entities, including the Electoral Commission and parliamentarians, have launched investigations into different aspects of possible Russian government meddling.'"
Lol - Honestly - you don't seriously expect me to answer that do you?
 
Dominic Grieve is all there is to say about.
Dominic Grieve is all there is to say about.
Do you have any reason to prefer this aristocrat?

"MI6, MI5 and GCHQ have already cleared the 50-page file as safe to publish.

"The blocking of the report called into doubt the point of having an Intelligence and Security Committee at all, Mr Grieve said.

"The senior, cross-party group of MPs and peers is unique among all parliamentary committees because its members have access to top secret intelligence, but the reports it produces can only be published once approval is given by the prime minister."

https://news.sky.com/story/russia-report-row-dominic-grieve-accuses-pm-of-using-no-10-to-spread-propaganda-and-disinformation-11855996

What does Johnson gain by hiding this report?:confused:
 

JackDallas

Senator
Supporting Member
We know that no election is a sure thing but ----- if the vote isn't split between Boris and Farage even Labour expect Boris to win ----- even, I have it on good authority, in some Northern areas which naturally hate the Tories!

Libdems will get the Remain vote - some inner city areas will vote Labour but Labour have betrayed their working class base.

I don't know what Wales will vote --- because of Labours betrayal it is hard to gage where their old heartlands voters will go.
Question: What exactly is a Torie in England. I know what the scoundrels were during the American Revolution, they were traitors to the cause of freedom from tyranny. But what are they against in England?
 

EatTheRich

President
Question: What exactly is a Torie in England. I know what the scoundrels were during the American Revolution, they were traitors to the cause of freedom from tyranny. But what are they against in England?
Like the Tories of the American Revolution era, they stand for conservative values and the “rights” of property.
 
Do you have any reason to prefer this aristocrat?

"MI6, MI5 and GCHQ have already cleared the 50-page file as safe to publish.

"The blocking of the report called into doubt the point of having an Intelligence and Security Committee at all, Mr Grieve said.

"The senior, cross-party group of MPs and peers is unique among all parliamentary committees because its members have access to top secret intelligence, but the reports it produces can only be published once approval is given by the prime minister."

https://news.sky.com/story/russia-report-row-dominic-grieve-accuses-pm-of-using-no-10-to-spread-propaganda-and-disinformation-11855996

What does Johnson gain by hiding this report?:confused:
Grieve, who is a rotter and disliked equally by Right and Left, chaired a committee which was looking into Kremlin influences on UK politics - Boris didn't give it the go ahead for publication.
What is now being said is that it was about an ex Russian, British business man having donated funds to the Conservative and Unionist Party - openly and above board and not illegal. You can keep going on about this 'reds under the beds' nonsense George but it really is a non story - donations made to Parties is in the public domain and how anyone could suppose a rich Russian in the UK would be anything to do with the Kremlin I don't know - the two are enemies. I should imagine that Boris was averting a media witch hunt against an innocent party.

Anyway thank goodness Grieve isn't standing to be re elected so another traitor hits the dust.
 
Question: What exactly is a Torie in England. I know what the scoundrels were during the American Revolution, they were traitors to the cause of freedom from tyranny. But what are they against in England?
Believe it or not Jack things here have changed a bit since then, even in politics.

Now the Tories are the only Party, who could win this election, for Brexit and against the EU occupation. They are fighting against Marxism in the form of the present Labour Party. There are other complications in this election though, in the smaller Parties splitting the votes, making the outcome of it uncertain.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_Party_(UK)

I have never before voted Tory but I shall this time = Brexit.
 
Like the Tories of the American Revolution era, they stand for conservative values and the “rights” of property.
It is sometimes hard to judge our politics over the last 46 yrs because so much law making has come out of Brussels - but even during those years, as well as before, Labour have always left us bankrupt - Blair and Brown were incredibly irresponsible - they left a note on the incoming Tory Treasurers desk saying 'I am afraid there is no money'. It means that the Tories are always blamed for being harsh, I do not always disagree with that, when trying to pull us out of the mess Labour's public overspending leaves behind BUT we are now in a much better economic state after the 10 miserable years of Cameron and May. I know that you probably sympathize with Corbyn but honestly how would he pay for his open door immigration, four working day week and so on? He intends to tax us up to the hilt, including our gardens, and we know from the Wilson years that means that people who could generate any wealth just leave the country in their droves.

I like Boris and he is fun, which is a huge bonus in this day and age, he is a moderate and not an unkindly man who does love Britain - and do not forget that underpinning life here is the welfare state, which will be a lot healthier out of the EU's strangulating clutches.
 

JackDallas

Senator
Supporting Member
Believe it or not Jack things here have changed a bit since then, even in politics.

Now the Tories are the only Party, who could win this election, for Brexit and against the EU occupation. They are fighting against Marxism in the form of the present Labour Party. There are other complications in this election though, in the smaller Parties splitting the votes, making the outcome of it uncertain.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_Party_(UK)

I have never before voted Tory but I shall this time = Brexit.
Well, I'll be dipped in shit (not literally...that a Texas colloquialism). That gives me a new-found respect for the Tory. I sincerely hope that England gets out of that nightmare.
 

JackDallas

Senator
Supporting Member
Like the Tories of the American Revolution era, they stand for conservative values and the “rights” of property.
I beg to differ, Ma'am. The Tories supported the crown during the Revolutionary War. And the crown certainly did not respect property rights.
We thank the British for the 4th Amendment (and most of the others in our Bill of Rights) that prevents the entry into people's homes, by police or military, without a warrant.
 
Well, I'll be dipped in shit (not literally...that a Texas colloquialism). That gives me a new-found respect for the Tory. I sincerely hope that England gets out of that nightmare.
Nigel Farage who was, at one time, the Leader of UKIP, never an MP, but then left and became a Member of the European Parliament (MEP) - they make three times as much money as our MPs for doing nothing very much at all but vote on, 400 per session, laws they have not made and give 1 min speeches occasionally - has started a new party here, The Brexit Party, but isn't standing for election himself. He is criticizing Boris ( lying essentially) and threatening to split the Tory vote which could be a disaster - if Boris won't form a pact with him - which of course he won't - and rightly so.

Farage, has an ego as big as a mountain and has completely lost the plot but a lot of politically unsophisticated Brexiteers are following him as though he were a cult god.

May made a terrible withdrawal agreement ( in place whilst our negotiations out of the EU are on going) with the EU - it was rejected by Parliament three times. The deal kept us in the EU, without any input, until the EU told us we could leave and she handed over our Military to the EU and all sorts of other horrors. May went and Boris took over and renegotiated the worst parts of the deal, most especially that we are able to leave fully - with a free trade deal with the EU in place, by Dec 2020. Farage says we should just leave without any deals and talks about Boris's deal as though it were permanent, not transitory. I wish we could just leave but it ain't that easy after 46 yrs and it would mean that we had to negotiate afterwards whilst trading in what is now an integrated bloc under WTO rules ---as well as extraditing ourselves from Empirical rule over our domestic affairs --- a mess.

And the song plays on ............. Meanwhile mud is being thrown in all directions - the media all being for Remaining in the EU £££££ - the EU tells us how to spend our money and the media gets its allotted cut.
 
I beg to differ, Ma'am. The Tories supported the crown during the Revolutionary War. And the crown certainly did not respect property rights.
We thank the British for the 4th Amendment (and most of the others in our Bill of Rights) that prevents the entry into people's homes, by police or military, without a warrant.
The Conservative Party ( Tories) of now were not formed then. Not until 1834 - they are still called Tories because that is where they came out of - but it isn't the same Party.
 
Grieve, who is a rotter and disliked equally by Right and Left, chaired a committee which was looking into Kremlin influences on UK politics - Boris didn't give it the go ahead for publication.
What is now being said is that it was about an ex Russian, British business man having donated funds to the Conservative and Unionist Party - openly and above board and not illegal. You can keep going on about this 'reds under the beds' nonsense George but it really is a non story - donations made to Parties is in the public domain and how anyone could suppose a rich Russian in the UK would be anything to do with the Kremlin I don't know - the two are enemies. I should imagine that Boris was averting a media witch hunt against an innocent party.

Anyway thank goodness Grieve isn't standing to be re elected so another traitor hits the dust.
What is now being said is that it was about an ex Russian, British business man having donated funds to the Conservative and Unionist Party - openly and above board and not illegal. You can keep going on about this 'reds under the beds' nonsense George but it really is a non story
I wasn't sure what your recent history is on meddling in the elections of other countries:

While there's no doubt Russians interfered in the US 2016 election in a "sweeping and systematic fashion", we really had it coming.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Russian_presidential_election#Allegations_of_American_interference

"Some have argued that the role of American president Bill Clinton's administration in securing an International Monetary Fund loan for Russia was an act of foreign electoral intervention.[61][62]

"The United States favored Yeltsin[63] and in 2016, Dick Morris alleged that Bill Clinton was involved in assembling a trio of American consultants advising Yeltsin's campaign.[64]

"The topic of American influence on Russian elections is developed in US popular culture, for example, in the 2003 comedy Spinning Boris."
 
I wasn't sure what your recent history is on meddling in the elections of other countries:

While there's no doubt Russians interfered in the US 2016 election in a "sweeping and systematic fashion", we really had it coming.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Russian_presidential_election#Allegations_of_American_interference

"Some have argued that the role of American president Bill Clinton's administration in securing an International Monetary Fund loan for Russia was an act of foreign electoral intervention.[61][62]

"The United States favored Yeltsin[63] and in 2016, Dick Morris alleged that Bill Clinton was involved in assembling a trio of American consultants advising Yeltsin's campaign.[64]

"The topic of American influence on Russian elections is developed in US popular culture, for example, in the 2003 comedy Spinning Boris."
Of course the Bankers wanted Yeltsin - thereby came their Russian Oligarchs.

I've told you that story before haven't I? All of the states in and around Russia were very concerned about finding a way that they could introduce capitalism into what was a communist system without too much harm being done. There was to be a three day conference --- They did nothing the first day, Yeltsin was too drunk, after dinner even drunker - before breakfast he was too sick - by lunch to drunk and so on and on for the whole conference. The others had to go and said but we have to decide Yeltsin, drunkenly said --- 'just let it happen by itself, it'll be ok' and had another vodka. Everyone left with nothing decided and in came the Bankers via their Oligarchs - causing terrible misery in their wake.

When ever this Greive thing is brought up no-one is interested - not even Remoaners seem to take any notice of it. Now a Labour ex MP, looking for reelection, is saying ' but I'm not a Russian spy, honest' - so I dunno what else has been said about the Greive committee's findings - nor do I care.
 
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