Wahbooz
Governor
You should really pay attention to this episode of Frontline.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/retirement-gamble/
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/retirement-gamble/
Thinking about a retirement fund?
- Thread starter Wahbooz
- Start date
oicu812
"Trust, but Verify"
i watched that the other night,,,really pissed me of to see how the fund mgrs. deflected, and squirmed around trying to deny the indisputable math..
they cost me my house in boca...
Wahbooz
Governor
It's disgusting what has gone on.
oicu812
"Trust, but Verify"
it certainly is...and since investing {401k etc.} are designed to be confusing, obfuscating, most people are too busy managing their every day existance and trust the very theives who designed the scam...we must be more diligent and knowledgeable about how one chooses to "invest" their money...
its like walking into a casino, throwing down a stack of money, and saying "here ya go, let me know how i do" w/o knowing what games are played, whos playing for you or how much off the top they take for the privledge..
Wahbooz
Governor
Listen to John Bogle, he knows the ins and outs of the investment industry.
oicu812
"Trust, but Verify"
too late for that now,,like many, i lost most of it during the dot com/realestate bust including my job of 15 years..and the rest was eaten up by day to day expenses..but i got through it, wiser, but much poorer, and my family hardly noticed...now i invest in something tangible, silver..its a better buy than gold, and undervalued...at least its something i can melt down and cast into ammo if ever the need arises...
Wahbooz
Governor
Well silver or gold are tangible assets, but unfortunately they are not garnering much of a melt value right now. Silver melt is only 19.41, which still wouldn't be bad if you'd invested when it was $5 or less an ounce. Will they come back, who knows. I know a number of investors who are hanging onto the hope of the price rising again to $50 oz.
I would suggest considering rare and obsolete coins as an investment, such as Morgan and Peace dollars, Walking Liberty Halves, where you have silver as well as obsolete, and Buffalo nickels for starters. I prefer certified by a reputable company, PCGS or NGC being the only ones I accept. You buy at a risk with ANACS, MNS, ICG, or PCI. And there are others out there I would not touch either.
Steer clear of HSN and that 'Coin Vault' show, or any of those hawking coins. They are vastly overpriced.
oicu812
"Trust, but Verify"
i buy used silver jewelry at scrap or little higher..some is nice enough to just be resold as jewelry $35-40 oz. other has its melt value...got some gold,,and pre 64 silver coins i bought at a good price...
in the late 70s i came across a guy who had a small leather bag just filled with miniture gold coins...he said they assayed at between 8-20 kt each..i did my acid and scratch test on some, and damn if they were not real! gold was real low then,,and i got the bag about 1.5 oz for 90.00 and gave away a bunch to friends clients etc. and put the rest in my safe for 30 years..come the bust..
i remembered those beautiful little st,augistine coins,,each about 3/8 inch across and a weighed a little less than a pennyweight each..and thought i would see what i could get for them...i took one to a dealer i knew, not really expecting much,,but he said "oh yea,,the mini st augistines,,i can only give you $25.oo each for them.. i rushed home and counted how many i had left,,89 coins at 25 per $2225.00 at a time i needed it most!
as i drove back i wondered just how many i had given away,,buy low, sell high..
Wahbooz
Governor
I'm not sure what St. Augustine is, unless it's some kind of world coin. Are you referring to Augustus Saint-Gaudens?
oicu812
"Trust, but Verify"
you're right,,i knew it was august somthing [been a long time]....
Wahbooz
Governor
Too bad I can't see what the devices were on the coins. But from your estimate of the diameter of them, they were less than Quarter Eagles, perhaps Gold dollars, but I am only aware of him being credited for the Gold Eagle and the Double Eagle. He may still have had a hand in design change though.
Gold Eagle
Double Eagle
Boltlady
Mayor
Around here I've taken a lot of flak for being a 'conspiracy theorist' but my habit of looking beyond what is generally accepted as the truth has stood me in good stead so far. As I've said in the past I wound up raising 4 kids with little help from anybody. I spent 10 years really scratching just to survive and keep them fed with a roof over their heads. Something like welfare never even occurred to me.
When I was 42 I decided to start a business that I actually knew little about and was already heavily in debt (credit cards) from the previous 10 years. I was not good at working for other people so I felt I could figure it out on my own. I struggled and worked my heart out for several years but eventually was making it work. During those years I had a 2nd very short lived marriage, he turned out to be an alcoholic, so I decided then and there that I would be entirely responsible for my own future.
Once my business was getting established, my lifelong breathing problems were creating problems and I knew that I would not be able to keep up the pace, so I got the bright idea to invest in stocks. I knew nothing but I paid attention to what was going on and got into it. Like most others I lost a lot during the crash of 2008, but I took what I had learned and have gradually built back up. At no time did I jeopardize what I already had and during that time I accumulated a little more real estate.
By paying close attention to what was going on in the market, my 'conspiracy theories' came in very handy. I knew better than to leave any of the decisions up to anybody else. None of this has made me rich by today's standards, but I don't have to depend on anyone else. The couple pieces of real estate that I have are paid for. The business rarely sees me but it still provides me with an income because of the way I set it up. It's gone on for 32 years now.
Anybody who believes the official versions of any of the news that we get presented with could find themselves with unwelcome surprises. In my case at least I won't be surprised.
oicu812
"Trust, but Verify"
they were not as i recall coins in the sense of legal tender, but as promotional giveaways..i have seen some of the same attached to cardbord, sent in the mail from ins. companys..and others bearing the likeness of buffalo nickels, indianhead pennys, double eagles, lincoln head cents etc.Too bad I can't see what the devices were on the coins. But from your estimate of the diameter of them, they were less than Quarter Eagles, perhaps Gold dollars, but I am only aware of him being credited for the Gold Eagle and the Double Eagle. He may still have had a hand in design change though.
Gold Eagle
Double Eagle
mexican 1 peso gold coins can be bought today, in the same size...who produced them at the time,,i dont know..but i dont think they were govt. issued..on ebay today, you can find the same ones i got in the 70s for sale today,,,only they are gold electroplated, and not 8-20 kt..
Wahbooz
Governor
Gotcha, promotional coins. What a relief, I was going to tell you the value of $1 gold coins today.
A lot of people are getting sucked in by the 'gold plated' 50 State quarters etc. They can't even sell them for uncirculated coins anymore, and the amount of gold isn't worth the effort.
Wahbooz
Governor
I'm not a fan of the stock market, I prefer rare and obsolete coins.Around here I've taken a lot of flak for being a 'conspiracy theorist' but my habit of looking beyond what is generally accepted as the truth has stood me in good stead so far. As I've said in the past I wound up raising 4 kids with little help from anybody. I spent 10 years really scratching just to survive and keep them fed with a roof over their heads. Something like welfare never even occurred to me.
When I was 42 I decided to start a business that I actually knew little about and was already heavily in debt (credit cards) from the previous 10 years. I was not good at working for other people so I felt I could figure it out on my own. I struggled and worked my heart out for several years but eventually was making it work. During those years I had a 2nd very short lived marriage, he turned out to be an alcoholic, so I decided then and there that I would be entirely responsible for my own future.
Once my business was getting established, my lifelong breathing problems were creating problems and I knew that I would not be able to keep up the pace, so I got the bright idea to invest in stocks. I knew nothing but I paid attention to what was going on and got into it. Like most others I lost a lot during the crash of 2008, but I took what I had learned and have gradually built back up. At no time did I jeopardize what I already had and during that time I accumulated a little more real estate.
By paying close attention to what was going on in the market, my 'conspiracy theories' came in very handy. I knew better than to leave any of the decisions up to anybody else. None of this has made me rich by today's standards, but I don't have to depend on anyone else. The couple pieces of real estate that I have are paid for. The business rarely sees me but it still provides me with an income because of the way I set it up. It's gone on for 32 years now.
Anybody who believes the official versions of any of the news that we get presented with could find themselves with unwelcome surprises. In my case at least I won't be surprised.
oicu812
"Trust, but Verify"
they had no numismatic value, just the value of the gold they were made of..
the gold plated replicas of double eagles etc. have no intrinsic value..just fluff..
"why are we giving away authentic faux reproductions of the most sought after coins in US history at the low price of $19.99 plus s/h [limit 1 billion per household] these coins are beautifully covered in .000000000001% pure gold elelctroplate and bound to increase in value..[they have no value except to the sellers, try to resell one,,they dont even have face/material value]...yes they sure take in a lot of suckers..
Wahbooz
Governor
I have to tell you. A guy came into a coin show one day, after the economy tanked, and he had some coins he bought off of one of those HSN programs. One of them was a Roosevelt dime, that was supposed to be graded as a Proof 70. Some stupid 'grading service' that gives grades the show person wants on the coins. He was hoping to make the money he paid for the coin, which was $250. The coin wasn't even worth $2. Those people who sucker the public should be taken out and hung by their thumbs.
fairsheet
Senator
"Consumer Reports" has been analyzing and adjudging investment vehicles for at least a couple of decades. "Costs and fees" are anathema to them. The same is true of the market basket of funds made available to me through my 401k program as now and again, growing fee offerings are replaced with offerings with lower to no fee basis.
I never quite got all that until very recently. I tended to think of it more In terms of Consumer Report's obsessive "nickel-and-dimery". But to my mind - what's a coupla percentage points here or there, in the grand scheme?
Well as it turns out - once they've been crunched with a compound interest-pencil, a point or two here or there turns to be real money.
I never quite got all that until very recently. I tended to think of it more In terms of Consumer Report's obsessive "nickel-and-dimery". But to my mind - what's a coupla percentage points here or there, in the grand scheme?
Well as it turns out - once they've been crunched with a compound interest-pencil, a point or two here or there turns to be real money.
Fast Eddy
Mayor
A great video, thanks for posting Wahbooz. It is even more dire out there than what was mentioned in the video. Most of the Public sector pensions are way under funded and will go bankrupt or will be readjusted to give people way less than they expect.
A lot of people use fund managers to manage their money, all these guys do is move the money from your account to theirs. The big solid name companies are as bad as the fly by night little companies. Years ago I tried a fund manager and only after a couple months I knew things were not right and made an appointment to revue the account activity. The guy was making a lot of stupid trades, but he was making good money because of the trade fees. He was basically eating all the profit by the old game of churning. I immediately withdrew my money and opened a SepIRA that I manage and it has worked great.
I still have a couple of 401k from several employers that I let ride as a comparison to my own trading and management. These 401k plans make about 6% return a year, my SepIra makes 50-75% a year return. Its a lot of work but for those differences it is well worth it.
The old idea of putting your money in a good solid company and never touching it. Corporate life cycles are very short as i market volatility issues. To me long term investing is about a year. You can do just as well by buying leap options as you can by buying the stock for about a tenth of the price.
If you are going to make money you need to learn how to make money in down markets and protect your existing holdings from huge loses. Investment strategies like collars need to be used. Without dong these things your just rolling the dice in a rigged system and you will lose your money. By studying and understanding market behavior it can be beaten.
Before you ever make a real trade, do some pretend trading (paper trading) and get comfortable with everything. I traded for a year on paper before I made a real trade. It payed off as the first year I was just shy of a million profit. In the 2008 disaster there was little time to react, but there were warnings leading up to the market crash. I bet heavy on the down side and made more than the good years on the upside. You must act fast and have the courage of your convictions.
Pensions and social security will be soon gone, so people need to take charge of their own fate. Most people remain ignorant of investment issues and will pay for it in old age.
I get mad every time think of the investment bankers and money handling, its all set up to make them rich on your money. Half these people should be in jail.
A lot of people use fund managers to manage their money, all these guys do is move the money from your account to theirs. The big solid name companies are as bad as the fly by night little companies. Years ago I tried a fund manager and only after a couple months I knew things were not right and made an appointment to revue the account activity. The guy was making a lot of stupid trades, but he was making good money because of the trade fees. He was basically eating all the profit by the old game of churning. I immediately withdrew my money and opened a SepIRA that I manage and it has worked great.
I still have a couple of 401k from several employers that I let ride as a comparison to my own trading and management. These 401k plans make about 6% return a year, my SepIra makes 50-75% a year return. Its a lot of work but for those differences it is well worth it.
The old idea of putting your money in a good solid company and never touching it. Corporate life cycles are very short as i market volatility issues. To me long term investing is about a year. You can do just as well by buying leap options as you can by buying the stock for about a tenth of the price.
If you are going to make money you need to learn how to make money in down markets and protect your existing holdings from huge loses. Investment strategies like collars need to be used. Without dong these things your just rolling the dice in a rigged system and you will lose your money. By studying and understanding market behavior it can be beaten.
Before you ever make a real trade, do some pretend trading (paper trading) and get comfortable with everything. I traded for a year on paper before I made a real trade. It payed off as the first year I was just shy of a million profit. In the 2008 disaster there was little time to react, but there were warnings leading up to the market crash. I bet heavy on the down side and made more than the good years on the upside. You must act fast and have the courage of your convictions.
Pensions and social security will be soon gone, so people need to take charge of their own fate. Most people remain ignorant of investment issues and will pay for it in old age.
I get mad every time think of the investment bankers and money handling, its all set up to make them rich on your money. Half these people should be in jail.
Wahbooz
Governor
And there is where the rub is. Actuarial charts can give you a heads up, if you know the fee rate, for however long your 401k will be held.
