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Is it time again for paper ballots?

Hmmmm

Mayor
lets get the voter id implemented.
It seems to me that the voter ID requirement is a solution in search of a problem because
... there's no sign that the type of illegal voting that would be discouraged by voter ID happens in any substantial numbers, much less that it is demographically skewed, so there's no meaningful chance that this will change the ultimate outcomes of any elections.
 

Jen

Senator
No problem with implementation of a voter ID law, if.... IF the law provides for a convenient means of getting the ID at no cost to a citizen. Current laws make certain forms of ID acceptable... or unacceptable... that could disenfranchise certain demographics. We've heard the horror stories of aged folks with walkers standing in lines for over 4 hours to get a "state approved" ID. If you're going to require it... staff the system with enough folks to take care of the applicants in a timely manner.
I do hope the Pubs understand there can be just as much voter "fraud"... or more... with these crazy ID laws as without. Hand the person authorizing the ID cards and application and a $100 bill and see if you don't get a card. What's to stop a particular race, religion, etc. official from handing out ID's to those of the same ilk? When people are involved, there can and will be corruption. When there is a law, there can and will be people circumvent it.
I understand that there will always be fraud.
But I would like to at least try to reduce it.
The idea that requiring ID is meant to keep certain people from voting is ludicrous just like many of the other Democrat accusations.
 

SW48

Administrator
Staff member
Supporting Member
It seems to me that the voter ID requirement is a solution in search of a problem because
So all Lefties believe Voter ID is a bad idea and all Righties believe it is a good idea?

How is that possible unless both sides just believe everything their party tells them.

Damn, think for yourselves and quit having politicians tell you what you should write. One time.
 

Jen

Senator
So all Lefties believe Voter ID is a bad idea and all Righties believe it is a good idea?

How is that possible unless both sides just believe everything their party tells them.

Damn, think for yourselves and quit having politicians tell you what you should write. One time.
We use paper ballots here in OK where I vote.
Nothing wrong with them.
From what I hear about machines being tampered with and votes changed from the Republican candidates to the Democrat candidate............or the other way around, it seems that the machines are not trustworthy.
 

Hmmmm

Mayor
So all Lefties believe Voter ID is a bad idea and all Righties believe it is a good idea?

How is that possible unless both sides just believe everything their party tells them.

Damn, think for yourselves and quit having politicians tell you what you should write. One time.
Wow. Maybe I am thinking for myself. I am not the lefty you seem to indicate here.

Again, I don't see a problem that requires fixing.
 

Arkady

President
Its a strange argument twisted with politics.
I agree that the argument here has become terribly twisted with politics. There's a clear choice here between requiring ID, and thereby deterring a huge number of voters, and not requiring it, and thereby allowing a small number of ineligible votes to slip through. Between the two, one skews the election massively more than the other. So, obviously, reasonable people will prefer not to require ID. But that simple exercise in reason has gotten twisted by the strange partisan obsessions of people on the right.

yet you are saying a voter ID would prevent more Democrats from getting to the booth?
A voter ID requirement is likely to disproportionately deter Democrats from voting. This isn't because Democrats are uninformed. It's simply because the demographic niches most likely not to have qualifying ID are demographic niches that tend to favor the Democrats -- including young people and urban dwellers. That is the whole reason Republicans back voter ID. If the demographics were reversed, they'd oppose it.

A simple way to think about this in a way that puts the political shoe on the other foot is to think about absentee ballots -- which are, after all, a vastly more practical way to try to steal an election (since a fraudster can send out thousands of them anonymously, with no chance of getting caught, as opposed to having to go from precinct to precinct making a few votes in person, at extremely high risk of apprehension, for in-person fraud). What if I were to propose a rule that said that all absentee ballots must be duly notarized in over to be valid? This would be a relatively small expense, but it would be a meaningful inconvenience. And so it would depress voter turnout among absentees. And it would be particularly likely to depress turnout among military personnel serving abroad, where it could be more difficult to line up a notary than simply having it signed by a witness. This reform would skew the game a little bit in favor of the Democrats, by reducing the absentee balloting that typically goes for the Republicans. Thus, of course, the Republicans aren't pushing for this reform, even though it would address a far more practical form of fraud than in-person fraudulent voting. This isn't about addressing fraud. It's about trying to alter the demographics of the voters in a way that favors a particular party. That's why patriotic Americans oppose it.

I don't care who votes or who doesn't or whether they are Democrats or Republicans, lets get the voter id implemented.
Why? You're talking about a significant taxpayer expense, a significant inconvenience for many citizens, and a significant negative factor in voter turnout, all to address a problem that appears so rare that the chances of it EVER changing an election result are near zero. It would be profoundly un-conservative to implement such a sweeping and problematic change for no good reason.
 

Arkady

President
Slight change to what you wrote.
You said: "you are saying a voter ID would prevent more Democrats from getting to the booth"

What you should have said: "you are saying a voter ID would prevent Democrats from getting to the booth more"

That one word "more" needed to be moved. The primary reason Democrats want no voter ID is so that their people can vote more than once.
Why would Democrats be any more likely to vote multiple times than Republicans? All evidence is that it is extremely rare, and I've seen no sign that it skews to one party more than the other, which just further reduced the negligible chance it'll ever happen enough to alter the result in any election.
 

Boca

Governor
So sorry this thread has devolved into arguing about voter ID laws (which have been given a thumbs up by the Supreme Court) rather than about the Democrat version of Geek Squads manipulating voting machines.

Far more insidious and destructive of fair elections. Criminal even.
 

Dawg

President
Supporting Member
I voted yesterday by mail. Was disappointed everything on the ballot was repeated in Spanish. Then also I had to put two stamps on it.

So people are complaining about needing a photo ID at the booth but aren't complaining about having to pay to vote by putting stamps on the return envelope? Isn't that suppressing the vote?

:)
Repeated in Spanish.............CHANGE/FORWARD
 

Dawg

President
Supporting Member
Exactly.....although I would think in this day and age digital records could be produced.

But that would spoil things for the criminals wouldn't it?

HACKERS
what about HACKERS
they got millions of credit card numbers easily..............
explains how Θ got 100% 0f votes in OHIO......................booths
 

Dawg

President
Supporting Member
"No" on paper ballots or no on anything that would upset the apple cart? Like for example voter ID?

Fact is both Republicans and Democrats cheat and if you thought for a second Republicans were better at it you'd be screaming bloody murder .
Liberals think only POOR are blacks..................they never been to the valley in West Virginia or the Mountains of North Carolina or anywhere South of Mason Dixon.......where POOR ass whites work/live...................they MORE poor ass whites than blacks................problem is..........they have too much PRIDE to live off taxpayers........
 

Dawg

President
Supporting Member
"undetected but systemic" was a phrase one member of your party used to described voter fraud. "Both sides do it" is a Republican bullshiite argument. The Republican solution,to the undetected problem,isn't intended to solve a problem. It's intended to limit turnout. You guys know that. Any attempt to explain it otherwise is pure bullshiite.
What's turnout in Mid-Term elections............PISS POOR............Majority don't give a fvck........Majority soooooooooo fed up with Political Ads on TV, they just want election over and NEVER hear anymore of the $MILLIONS spent on TV for f'wits.......
 

Dawg

President
Supporting Member
The type of acceptable IDs in the Republican written laws,limits turnout. Student IDs issued by state universities aren't allowed but Concealed Handgun licenses are? They don't want students to vote because they tend to vote Dem. Not all students have cars,so they don't all have driver's licenses. Nowadays,they do all their banking and bill paying online. They don't even need a government issued id card. A senior citizen in a nursing home that doesn't drive and has their social security/disability checks direct deposited doesn't need a govt. issued id for anything. You gonna make them all have to go pay for an id card just to vote? Time and time again,the few cases of voter fraud that are found and proven,aren't the kind that would be prevented with an id card. Driving,cashing checks and buying alcohol and cigarettes are privileges,not constitutional rights.
Apparently 99% of High School students have CAR's.............ID cards are FREE.........if not what $10.........IDK>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Go to a doctor appointment.........YOU better have ID...........

Needed ER treatment the other day...........HAD TO HAVE ID...............

Your post I should have gave a DUMB
 

Carlsen

MQ-1 warrior drone
Looks like they have a good picture of the guy. Sheriff Joe should be able to track him down.

I'd say 3 to 5 years in prison for this, or any other fraudulent voting scheme, including rigging voting machines, would send a clear message....make it 5 to 10 and you might stop it altogether.

Republican or Democrat.
Sweden use paper ballots to vote and don't have any trouble with this

.
 

Boca

Governor
Sweden use paper ballots to vote and don't have any trouble with this

.
As you probably know firsthand Sweden is far more culturally and racially homogeneous than the US, meaning there is little or no incentive for powerful interests and political parties to pit one group against another or encourage them to cheat and steal as a means to acquiring power.

Open multicultural societies are inherently less stable tending not to survive. Sadly the term "united states" is now a misnomer of the first order.
 
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Craig

Senator
Supporting Member
As you probably know firsthand Sweden is far more culturally and racially homogeneous than the US, meaning there is little or no incentive for powerful interests and political parties to pit one group against another or encourage them to cheat and steal as a means to acquiring power.

Open multicultural societies are inherently less stable tending not to survive. Sadly the term "united states" is now a misnomer of the first order.

Is the "term" The United States more or less a misnomer than it was in 1863?
 
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