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Netanyahu's Strategic Blunder

RickWA

RickWA

Snagglesooth
Arkady said:
Ummm.... duh. As an American, I don't like the Israeli tail wagging the American dog. The sheer presumptuousness of it bothers me. They owe us so much. We've funded their nation for decades (not just official foreign aid, but private contributions as well). We give them preferential access to our military technologies and our intelligence. We run military interference for them in the region. Our veto vote in the Security Council is often all that stands between them and economically crippling sanctions when they start breaching international law. And thanks to our glaring complicity in their lawlessness, we have a huge target painted on us. Few countries are as fully in the debt of other countries as Israel is to the US. But it's never enough for Israel, and so I hope my disapproval is overt.

If Netanyahu wants to turn Israel into a partisan issue by expressly tying his personal electoral fortunes with the GOP, that's fine with me. I think it's a good thing for America (and, in the long term, a good thing for Israel) for something to break this pattern of the US enabling the worst impulses of Israel. Making that policy a partisan issue may bump us out of that rut.
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This is useful. Your expectation is that the left should be able to vilify and deemphasize Israel's significance to US interests. And you think that Israel should meet this with continued neutrality across the parties. They should not align with those who are more accessible and who express esteem any more than those who rhetorically belittle them and seek to minimize their role/impact.

It is EXACTLY the same sort of lack of reciprocity that I note of lefties on this board on an individual basis. The expectation is that you are able to amble onward consequence-free. It is adolescence writ large.
 
resident_evil

resident_evil

Senator
Spamature said:
Here is where the same thing I always say about the main difference between cons and libs shows through. And how you are applying the conservative mindset to liberals.

Libs judge people in accordance to what they believe they do.

Cons judge people in accordance to who they believe are.

You equate opposition to the actions of the state of Israel in the way you judge people, ie if they don't like what Israel it is doing it is because they don't like Jews.

In the conversely you don't like Muslims. So you support almost any actions against them by non Muslims.
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I like Muslims just find. I don't like Islam. Not its biggest fan. I leave that to you.
 
Arkady

Arkady

President
RickWA said:
This is useful. Your expectation is that the left should be able to vilify and deemphasize Israel's significance to US interests. And you think that Israel should meet this with continued neutrality across the parties. They should not align with those who are more accessible and who express esteem any more than those who rhetorically belittle them and seek to minimize their role/impact.

It is EXACTLY the same sort of lack of reciprocity that I note of lefties on this board on an individual basis. The expectation is that you are able to amble onward consequence-free. It is adolescence writ large.
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Israel has a choice. They can, if they choose, turn this into a partisan issue for momentary electoral advantage and thereby undermine the sweetest deal any nation has going. But, to use your words, they shouldn't expect that to be consequence free.
 
Saladin2

Saladin2

Senator
Supporting Member
Netanyahu is a arrogant war mongering Ass Hole...The Israeli people need to get rid of him and come back and engage with the rest of the World...Time for him to go
 
Z

zzigzzag

Guest
RickWA said:
This is useful. Your expectation is that the left should be able to vilify and deemphasize Israel's significance to US interests. And you think that Israel should meet this with continued neutrality across the parties. They should not align with those who are more accessible and who express esteem any more than those who rhetorically belittle them and seek to minimize their role/impact.

It is EXACTLY the same sort of lack of reciprocity that I note of lefties on this board on an individual basis. The expectation is that you are able to amble onward consequence-free. It is adolescence writ large.
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Multiple straw man alerts from the pseudo-intellectual insult troll who has finally been shamed into trying his hand at paragraphs.

But all he ends up with is stupid insults to a straw man in paragraph form. Go figure.
 
Z

zzigzzag

Guest
RickWA said:
Ironic that you relay such observations to the site's dedicated (semi-literate) attack dog. This is nearly as good as the "likes" you bestow to a certain slobbering Neanderthal error factory whose name I shall not mention here.

But...being a lefty means you hop in the sack with anyone, since the agenda washes you pure and clean. :-/
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Nothing but insults again....and again....and again....and again....

Keep interrupting adult conversations with stupid insults and I will keep on being the "attack dog", troll.

Step into my parlor.
 
Queen Titania

Queen Titania

Senator
Queen Titania

Queen Titania

Senator
Arkady said:
Ummm.... duh. As an American, I don't like the Israeli tail wagging the American dog. The sheer presumptuousness of it bothers me. They owe us so much. We've funded their nation for decades (not just official foreign aid, but private contributions as well). We give them preferential access to our military technologies and our intelligence. We run military interference for them in the region. Our veto vote in the Security Council is often all that stands between them and economically crippling sanctions when they start breaching international law. And thanks to our glaring complicity in their lawlessness, we have a huge target painted on us. Few countries are as fully in the debt of other countries as Israel is to the US. But it's never enough for Israel, and so I hope my disapproval is overt.

If Netanyahu wants to turn Israel into a partisan issue by expressly tying his personal electoral fortunes with the GOP, that's fine with me. I think it's a good thing for America (and, in the long term, a good thing for Israel) for something to break this pattern of the US enabling the worst impulses of Israel. Making that policy a partisan issue may bump us out of that rut.
Click to expand...

RT: How bad does Netanyahu need US government support at the moment?

IE: I think the problem is that he always gets the US government’s support. Frankly this a domestic political issue rather than a security issue. What happens is Israel has a lot of lobbying power in the US and therefore the US usually does Israel’s bidding. Now of course Obama is pushed back on that a little and Obama doesn’t have to be reelected again but there is a whole lot of Democrats who do need to be reelected again, and they need the Jewish vote and a lot of Christians support in Israel as well so they need that vote. I think the biggest news here is that Netanyahu is really putting the Democrats in a bad position because they have to choose between Obama and support for Israel.

http://rt.com/op-edge/237153-netanyahu-us-congress-iran-deal/
 
SW48

SW48

Administrator
Staff member
Supporting Member
Arkady said:
For years, Israel was a bipartisan issue -- at least among the coastal elites, and especially among the establishment media, everyone was "pro-Israel," regardless of party affiliation. It was a sweet deal for Israel -- no matter how lawless their conduct, they could count on gentle media coverage, favorable commentary from major politicians, a ready US veto in the Security Council, and a steady stream of public and private American money to fund their state. But Netanyahu may be enough of a political blunderer to mess this up for Israel. He is playing into the hands of American conservatives who want to politicize the issue of Israel. If they succeed in making it seem like Israel (or at least the Likudnik government) is in the Republican camp, it will start to sour Democrats and centrists on Israel (or at least Likud). I assume that Netanyahu is making these moves because they play well at home and he thinks it'll help him in the next election, and he may well be right. But the cost of his personal political ambitions might well be undermining a longer term asset of Israel, by politicizing support for Israel.
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I am 100% behind Israel and Netanyahu. I don't see any politics going on with this at all.

And I don't know any Jewish people that I can think of.

And I can't stand Boehner, Pelosi, McConnell, or Reid. They are all obstructionists.

I am 100% behind Obama. He has done some things many would not agree with but he has done nothing wrong.
 
fairsheet

fairsheet

Senator
Arkady said:
For years, Israel was a bipartisan issue -- at least among the coastal elites, and especially among the establishment media, everyone was "pro-Israel," regardless of party affiliation. It was a sweet deal for Israel -- no matter how lawless their conduct, they could count on gentle media coverage, favorable commentary from major politicians, a ready US veto in the Security Council, and a steady stream of public and private American money to fund their state. But Netanyahu may be enough of a political blunderer to mess this up for Israel. He is playing into the hands of American conservatives who want to politicize the issue of Israel. If they succeed in making it seem like Israel (or at least the Likudnik government) is in the Republican camp, it will start to sour Democrats and centrists on Israel (or at least Likud). I assume that Netanyahu is making these moves because they play well at home and he thinks it'll help him in the next election, and he may well be right. But the cost of his personal political ambitions might well be undermining a longer term asset of Israel, by politicizing support for Israel.
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Time (a coupla weeks) will tell how well this bullshit plays in Israel. I'm holding whatever fire I may have, for until after the Israel election.
 
Queen Titania

Queen Titania

Senator
marvin martian said:
Babies die all the time. Many, many, many of them are at the hands of people like you.
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Your stuck record is getting scratched ----------- what you are saying is that it is people like mes fault, that because people like me do not insist on women being intensely farmed on baby farms ----------- that that is your reason for the murdering of Semite babes ( Palestinians are Semites) far away in the Land of your Holy Book, The Bible? Murdered at the hands of your friends The Khazars.
 
marvin martian

marvin martian

Emperor
Queen Titania said:
Your stuck record is getting scratched ----------- what you are saying is that it is people like mes fault, that because people like me do not insist on women being intensely farmed on baby farms ----------- that that is your reason for the murdering of Semite babes ( Palestinians are Semites) far away in the Land of your Holy Book, The Bible? Murdered at the hands of your friends The Khazars.
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I really don't want to get into your fondness for killing babies or your hatred of Jews. Both of those disgust me and make me feel physically ill when I see your name. Bye...
 
Queen Titania

Queen Titania

Senator
marvin martian said:
I really don't want to get into your fondness for killing babies or your hatred of Jews. Both of those disgust me and make me feel physically ill when I see your name. Bye...
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Nor do I, nor are either constructive additions to the subject of the TP.

Don't poke and not expect to get poked back though marvin even when your asides are irrelevant to the subject in hand.

Be careful not to throw up in your hat!
 
Arkady

Arkady

President
SW48 said:
And I don't know any Jewish people that I can think of.
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Sort of off on a tangent, but I had a discussion a while back, locally, where I challenged people to guess what percentage of Americans are Jewish. People were guessing anywhere between 10% and 25%. I work in a Boston area corporate law practice and do a lot of work in the NY and DC area, so among our social set, 25% doesn't seem like an unreasonable guess. The idea of any American somehow not actually knowing any Jewish people would seem as strange, in this part of the country and this business world, as somehow not knowing any blondes. Yet the real answer is around 2%, and they're clustered so much in a few areas, that in many states the percentage is under 1%. For example, in Idaho, about 0.1% of people are Jewish, and in South Dakota the percentage rounds down to 0%.
 
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