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The ramifications of the SCOTUS' Hobby Lobby decision

BobbyT

Governor
You mean because they won't conciously disobey God for the sake of a couple's cake? I don't think so.

What about the portrait artist who won't paint nudes?

Or the Jehovah's Witness baker who won't make birthday cakes?

Or the Kosher deli owner who won't make cheeseburgers?

Are they in the wrong businesses, too?
Is there a Jehovah's Witness baker who won't bake birthday cakes? The Kosher deli owner advertises, with the very fact that he's a Kosher deli owner, that his deli doesn't serve cheeseburgers. It ain't on the menu. He doesn't make cheeseburgers for some but not all. Does the photographer have the same type of advertisement vis a vis gay couples?
 

gigi

Mayor
If "we" are all sinners then "we" have a responsibility to sin no more. There's no responsibility to ensure others don't sin. That's not our purview. It's theirs and their relationship with God. How dare you or others presume to decide what someone else's discussion with God has been? If you think taking pictures of someone who is a sinner is a sin, then you should not take pictures of anyone, right? Because we all are sinners. It's gross hypocrisy to stand against sinners you can "see" since you know that all are sinners. And their sin is not yours to judge. You don't always know when people are doing what "God forbids" but you feel yourself free to pick and choose. It's not your call.

No one is "being unable to participate in a wedding between same gender partners" because no one is "being told to" participate in the wedding. Don't go to the wedding. If you share the same sidewalk, is that a sin? If your tax dollars go to their social security is that a sin? If a firefighter that you paid tax dollars to saves their life, do you own that sin?

And yes, "being unable to participate in a wedding between same gender partners," when it means that people cannot avail themselves of the same business that other people can is exactly tantamount to discrimination.

The couple with the cake "still not married." WTF? Do you have a point with that? Did you just win something? Hey, that hetero couple who got married in your church 25 years ago? They're divorced. Do I win a prize?

My point about the couple still not being married is that they were a set up. They said they had heard that this baker had in the past refused to do the exact thing they went in asked him for, despite what they knew. How long has it been? They're still not married. Who orders their wedding cake when they haven't even set a date yet?

As for the rest of your post, you're just saying the same thing with different words. But the bottom line is,,,,,you are arguing against a faith you don't understand in the least.

These refusals aren't about "judging others" or claiming to know what their "discussions with God have been". These refusals are about the individual business owner trying to be faithful to THEIR OWN discussions with God and trying to behave in the way they believe GOD wants THEM to behave.

Again, you refuse to address the real issue and instead try and turn the discussion against Christianity. And of course it's a Christianity that you're fabricating.
I know of no Christianity that would have followers opposing saving the lives of anyone. If you do, then you need to take your outrage over that with THEM. But I think you just made that up. I also think you could not ever prove that the people who couldn't provide for these weddings believe such a thing.
 

gigi

Mayor
Is there a Jehovah's Witness baker who won't bake birthday cakes? The Kosher deli owner advertises, with the very fact that he's a Kosher deli owner, that his deli doesn't serve cheeseburgers. It ain't on the menu. He doesn't make cheeseburgers for some but not all. Does the photographer have the same type of advertisement vis a vis gay couples?


Why doesn't the kosher deli owner make cheeseburgers? Not asking him to eat one....just make it. Why do you think he can't even make one for folks who don't follow the same faith as him?
 

BobbyT

Governor
Why doesn't the kosher deli owner make cheeseburgers? Not asking him to eat one....just make it. Why do you think he can't even make one for folks who don't follow the same faith as him?
If the kosher deli owner starts a business with a particular menu, then the people who want to go there read from the menu and order accordingly. Do you know what kosher means? If a photographer or cake maker or florists sets up a business and says "these are the thing's I'll make," then they'll be the same as the kosher deli. They don't though, do they? They want to introduce their restrictions after the fact. Do you think a french restaurant is going to offer gyros? If it's not on the menu, it's not on the menu. How does a photographer put that on his "menu"? "I'll take pictures of weddings but not your wedding? Sorry, if the law says someone's wedding is a wedding, it's a wedding.
 

BobbyT

Governor
My point about the couple still not being married is that they were a set up. They said they had heard that this baker had in the past refused to do the exact thing they went in asked him for, despite what they knew. How long has it been? They're still not married. Who orders their wedding cake when they haven't even set a date yet?

As for the rest of your post, you're just saying the same thing with different words. But the bottom line is,,,,,you are arguing against a faith you don't understand in the least.

These refusals aren't about "judging others" or claiming to know what their "discussions with God have been". These refusals are about the individual business owner trying to be faithful to THEIR OWN discussions with God and trying to behave in the way they believe GOD wants THEM to behave.

Again, you refuse to address the real issue and instead try and turn the discussion against Christianity. And of course it's a Christianity that you're fabricating.
I know of no Christianity that would have followers opposing saving the lives of anyone. If you do, then you need to take your outrage over that with THEM. But I think you just made that up. I also think you could not ever prove that the people who couldn't provide for these weddings believe such a thing.
Oh hell yes those refusals are about judging others. Do you really, in your heart of hearts, believe that God is going to send a business owner to hell for doing business with a gay couple? Is it because the gay couple is in their face? The business owner knows he is doing business with sinners with every transaction, but somehow you believe that God is forgiving of those transactions because the business owner turns a blind eye to their non-gay sins? Is every business owner also sin-free? Um, nope.

It's not your business nor anyone else's what people believe. You want to believe that "Christians" who own a business can turn away a "sinner," but only a certain species of sinner. They (and you) don't care if they are doing business with sinners. They only care about a certain stripe of sinner. The rest of the sinners they happily do business with because it isn't "in their face." That's hypocrisy.

It's not a Christianity that I'm fabricating. It's the same "Christianity" that protests at soldier's funerals because they're anti-gay. It's the same "Christianity" that says that a hurricane that kills a bunch of people is God's punishment on the US because of accepting Gay marriage (Hi Pat Robertson).

I don't care in the least about whatever couple you're talking about. If they pretended to get married to make a point, good on them.
 

gigi

Mayor
If the kosher deli owner starts a business with a particular menu, then the people who want to go there read from the menu and order accordingly. Do you know what kosher means? If a photographer or cake maker or florists sets up a business and says "these are the thing's I'll make," then they'll be the same as the kosher deli. They don't though, do they? They want to introduce their restrictions after the fact. Do you think a french restaurant is going to offer gyros? If it's not on the menu, it's not on the menu. How does a photographer put that on his "menu"? "I'll take pictures of weddings but not your wedding? Sorry, if the law says someone's wedding is a wedding, it's a wedding.

That's all very interesting. But you didn't answer the question I asked you.

Are you going to answer my question?
 

EatTheRich

President
You mean because they won't conciously disobey God for the sake of a couple's cake? I don't think so.

What about the portrait artist who won't paint nudes?

Or the Jehovah's Witness baker who won't make birthday cakes?

Or the Kosher deli owner who won't make cheeseburgers?

Are they in the wrong businesses, too?
Any baker who won't make birthday cakes is certainly in the wrong line of business. Just like a baker who will only make wedding cakes if certain idiosyncratic demands are met.
 

gigi

Mayor
Oh hell yes those refusals are about judging others. Do you really, in your heart of hearts, believe that God is going to send a business owner to hell for doing business with a gay couple? Is it because the gay couple is in their face? The business owner knows he is doing business with sinners with every transaction, but somehow you believe that God is forgiving of those transactions because the business owner turns a blind eye to their non-gay sins? Is every business owner also sin-free? Um, nope.

It's not your business nor anyone else's what people believe. You want to believe that "Christians" who own a business can turn away a "sinner," but only a certain species of sinner. They (and you) don't care if they are doing business with sinners. They only care about a certain stripe of sinner. The rest of the sinners they happily do business with because it isn't "in their face." That's hypocrisy.

It's not a Christianity that I'm fabricating. It's the same "Christianity" that protests at soldier's funerals because they're anti-gay. It's the same "Christianity" that says that a hurricane that kills a bunch of people is God's punishment on the US because of accepting Gay marriage (Hi Pat Robertson).

I don't care in the least about whatever couple you're talking about. If they pretended to get married to make a point, good on them.
Oh come on, Bobby. I know you can read and I know you are comprehending what I'm explaining to you. You know exactly what the issue is. I've explained it to you twice this time, and I believe we've had other discussions about the same thing as well. But you've got this other argument all laid out that you are intent on using, even to the point of repeatedly accusing me of espousing the position of the baker and the photographer. But the truth is, you're being dishonest and you're not even near addressing the issue that these people have. Your argument is....if they're not perfect, they have no right to try to be as faithful as they humanly can. And....If they serve sinners, then they must be willing to participate in any behavior they believe is sinful anytime. Left leaning folks sure hate to waste what you guys believe are good talking points.

Clearly you don't understand much about any Christianity if you feel that all of Christianity is represented by the WBC family or the people who think God's wrath set the hurricane in motion. You don't know what we believe about these atrocities and tragedies. You've simply chosen the opinions you'd like to use as the stick to beat all of us with. Nor do you have any clue how we, according to our beliefs, are supposed to respond to them. But Christianity is such a thorn in the side of atheist leftists that you'll stoop to any level necessary to get your shots in.

It's not our place to discuss where anyone...you...the baker...the photographer....the couples....goes in the next life. That's for God and God alone to decide.
 

gigi

Mayor
So the baker stopped them from getting married on schedule, and you don't think they were discriminated against?

They hadn't set a wedding date when they went in there for the cake. They still don't have a wedding date.
How did the baker stop them from getting married?
 

EatTheRich

President
My point about the couple still not being married is that they were a set up. They said they had heard that this baker had in the past refused to do the exact thing they went in asked him for, despite what they knew. How long has it been? They're still not married. Who orders their wedding cake when they haven't even set a date yet?
Have you considered the possibility that they had to call off the wedding because they couldn't get the amenities they needed, including but perhaps not limited to a wedding cake? That they didn't have time to shop around for another cake because it was one of the last things they took care of in the days leading up to their wedding?
 

BobbyT

Governor
That's all very interesting. But you didn't answer the question I asked you.

Are you going to answer my question?
The only questions you asked in the post I responded to were how long as it been and who orders a cake when they haven't set a date yet. My answers are who cares and who cares. Did you have another question? If so just ask it alone without a wall of text and I will answer.
 

gigi

Mayor
I don't care in the least about whatever couple you're talking about. If they pretended to get married to make a point, good on them.
And this, perfect example of the leftist mentality...It's never about actual people with you guys. It's about ideology. Fake a wedding to ruin a family, because that family is Christian.
 

BobbyT

Governor
They hadn't set a wedding date when they went in there for the cake. They still don't have a wedding date.
How did the baker stop them from getting married?
Do you think the baker stopped them from getting married? Really?
 

BobbyT

Governor
And this, perfect example of the leftist mentality...It's never about actual people with you guys. It's about ideology. Fake a wedding to ruin a family, because that family is Christian.
That's what you're standing on? Of course it's about actual people. Do you think the 1960's sit in's were about getting a cup of coffee? Do you think sitting in the front of the bus was about a seat choice?
 

gigi

Mayor
Have you considered the possibility that they had to call off the wedding because they couldn't get the amenities they needed, including but perhaps not limited to a wedding cake? That they didn't have time to shop around for another cake because it was one of the last things they took care of in the days leading up to their wedding?
Should I try a larger font?

They had no wedding date set. So how could they be taking care of one of those last details that you take care of in the days before a wedding when they didn't know when the wedding would be?

They couldn't get the amenities they needed? Well, then wouldn't there be many bakers and service providers publicly accused of turning them away just like this ONE baker?I would think so, but no....just this one in their case.

How many people do you know go in and order a wedding cake with no date to have it baked by and no place to have it delivered by?

They knew he wouldn't bake the cake before they asked him...by their own admission.
 

BobbyT

Governor
Should I try a larger font?

They had no wedding date set. So how could they be taking care of one of those last details that you take care of in the days before a wedding when they didn't know when the wedding would be?

They couldn't get the amenities they needed? Well, then wouldn't there be many bakers and service providers publicly accused of turning them away just like this ONE baker?I would think so, but no....just this one in their case.

How many people do you know go in and order a wedding cake with no date to have it baked by and no place to have it delivered by?

They knew he wouldn't bake the cake before they asked him...by their own admission.
Interestingly, the Black people who sat in the cafeteries knew they couldn't get a cup of coffee before they sat at the lunch counter. Hmmmm. Should they have stayed away do you think?
 

gigi

Mayor
That's what you're standing on? Of course it's about actual people. Do you think the 1960's sit in's were about getting a cup of coffee? Do you think sitting in the front of the bus was about a seat choice?
And that's another thing....this comparison to what people of color went through just to be able to order a sandwich is cheap and offensive. This baker never stopped anyone from coming into his shop and buying products. They made a very specific request that he could not oblige. It had nothing to do with who they were, and EVERYTHING to do with his religious convictions. They were, and remained welcome to come back into his store and buy other items.
 
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