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No need to dismantle the coal fire plants

Wahbooz

Governor
Political Office -me? Mmm with my cred, that certainly would go down very well, apart from the fact that I don't like politics, most of the time, more and more so, I see 'it' as our adversary, and am still scratching my head wondering how the fu'ck I ended up spending so much time, or indeed any time at all, on a political forum and an American one at that!

I thought I answered your question by saying I don't know, nor does anyone else since we cannot dig deep enough to find out --- nor do we truly understand Volcano's and the theories have a connection/association with their activity/existence surely?

--- and that oil deposits are found on meteors which have come from uninhabited by any life form, 'rocks', from outta space we cannot rule out that oil is and or can/could be abiotic, non biological, as in, from vegetation, in its making. We can only have theories on what happens in the center of the Earth we cannot know --- as it seems we can only have theories on that which reaches us on the surface, for Oil does seep up of it's own accord, from deep within and of its mantle, that some theories are more useful for the PtB than others are, that Oil is finite for eg, only gets in the way of our curiosity, it does not help nor encourage any of our true philosophies, Natural and or otherwise, it turns them to Dogma...... which equals dead in it's tracks.

We are all made of the same stuff, the World and us, but in different make ups surely? Maybe Oil s the World's pooh and gas it's flatulence and coal just grit in it's eye - how's that for a flat earth theory?

And Days is right Oil rises to the surface, it does not sink, seep into the Earth.


Hell, in its first meaning, from whence it has morfed, was Earth, as in our incarnations on Earth, the underworld, since all the Ancients took reincarnation as a given.

And as a pps Wahbooz - Flat eartherism/creationism is not within the European psyche, we don't get it, it is a specifically American phenomenon. Perhaps to do with the Puritans who left these parts because the Laws disallowed their cruel practices which they thought in The New World they could freely practice to their sadistic hearts content.
Hahahaha, I am just going to take two comments. Number one, Plate Tectonics. Anything within one plate will be carried deeper into the earth as one plate slides under another. Number two... flat earth came from Europe, as well as creationism, where those you refer to as American came from.
 
Hahahaha, I am just going to take two comments. Number one, Plate Tectonics. Anything within one plate will be carried deeper into the earth as one plate slides under another. Number two... flat earth came from Europe, as well as creationism, where those you refer to as American came from.
:) The World is a 'multitasker' Wahbooz, is it not? There is more than one mechanism ( wrong word sorry can't come up with a more appropriate one at this mo) going on at any given time, isn't there?

Yup --- that is what I said but you would be hard pressed to find any here now, it just isn't a part of the dialogue, is what I was trying to say.
It is interesting how, when religions/dogmas travel and or become nomadic, they harden and become even more so.
 

Days

Commentator
Poor ol' you xxx Summer bugs are discourteous loutish bugs, they have no reasonable right to enter a persons body at this time of year --- I hope you feel better soon xxx
starting to feel better, today... went for a walk in the 95 degrees today trying to flush the last of this monster from my system. But my brain is back on, and the body doesn't hurt anymore.
 

Days

Commentator
I don't agree. The price of oil went up because investors in the futures market figured out they can play with the price of a barrel of oil. If your claim is that oil fields are replenishing, why would they have to drill even deeper? Use a reservoir, and then come back and begin pumping again.

Where did you get this oil fields replenishing anyway? I would like to see that, but if that really is true, their drilling could be causing fissures by which oil can seep in from another location. The primordial carbon that is the source of oil gets deep into the earth by subduction caused by plate tectonics, when one plate moves under the other.

Sorry you're not feeling good, I've had a few days myself. I hate people who walk around coughing into the air, especially the grocery store.
Well, it was quite by accident that they discovered oil in wells already pumped dry in the Gulf of Mexico... but there was enough to reopen production in a couple of them.
My point is not that it happens everywhere, but that for it to happen at all, oil must RISE, not sink. Oil never sinks, not in water and not in dirt, oil always rises to the surface, when it can. So the oil is being produced 5 miles below the surface, and it didn't sink to that depth, it was created at that depth.

Also, it doesn't take a million years for vegetation to decompose into dirt, it only takes about 2 years, after that the dirt is part of the rock cycle, and although the rock cycle does produce sedimentary rock over a long period of time, that process doesn't include oil. Coal, sure, but not oil.

At any rate, I'm not sure why oil is part of this conversation, wasn't the whole point of this thread that, the burning of coal is not contaminating the earth? I'm trying to learn if coal burning is producing a carbon isotope that oceanic vegetation refuses to process. That sounds plausible to me, but I'm not sure if that is what you are saying. We have a coal burning power plant near us and the people who live in houses nearby do suffer from the poor air quality, but there's other factories in the area also, all kinds of stacks, so it isn't necessarily the coal that is to blame for the health problems. To the best of my understanding, man has burned coal for hundreds of years with no bad side affects. Coal originates from vegetation, it isn't much different than burning wood.... and there's way more wood burning going on than man can keep up with.
 

Wahbooz

Governor
Well, it was quite by accident that they discovered oil in wells already pumped dry in the Gulf of Mexico... but there was enough to reopen production in a couple of them.
My point is not that it happens everywhere, but that for it to happen at all, oil must RISE, not sink. Oil never sinks, not in water and not in dirt, oil always rises to the surface, when it can. So the oil is being produced 5 miles below the surface, and it didn't sink to that depth, it was created at that depth.

Also, it doesn't take a million years for vegetation to decompose into dirt, it only takes about 2 years, after that the dirt is part of the rock cycle, and although the rock cycle does produce sedimentary rock over a long period of time, that process doesn't include oil. Coal, sure, but not oil.

At any rate, I'm not sure why oil is part of this conversation, wasn't the whole point of this thread that, the burning of coal is not contaminating the earth? I'm trying to learn if coal burning is producing a carbon isotope that oceanic vegetation refuses to process. That sounds plausible to me, but I'm not sure if that is what you are saying. We have a coal burning power plant near us and the people who live in houses nearby do suffer from the poor air quality, but there's other factories in the area also, all kinds of stacks, so it isn't necessarily the coal that is to blame for the health problems. To the best of my understanding, man has burned coal for hundreds of years with no bad side affects. Coal originates from vegetation, it isn't much different than burning wood.... and there's way more wood burning going on than man can keep up with.
So where is all this oil you claim is rising up out of the earth, and filling those reservoirs, coming from. Are you trying to tell me there is a vast ocean of oil deep in the core of the earth and rising up? You lose me with your theory, but I'll just accept your believing that.

Just one example, burning of coal produces millions of tons of solid waste every year, including fly ash, bottom ash, flue gas desulfurization, think acid rain, and heavy metals as well as mercury, thorium, uranium, and arsenic.
 
So where is all this oil you claim is rising up out of the earth, and filling those reservoirs, coming from. Are you trying to tell me there is a vast ocean of oil deep in the core of the earth and rising up? You lose me with your theory, but I'll just accept your believing that.

Just one example, burning of coal produces millions of tons of solid waste every year, including fly ash, bottom ash, flue gas desulfurization, think acid rain, and heavy metals as well as mercury, thorium, uranium, and arsenic.
A slag heap fell on a Welsh school years ago, killing all the children in the school. Soon after that I worked for the dept that dealt with 'slag' --- not for long I was a temp --- they found so many ways of using it when this heart tragedy forced it upon them.

This is what we do not do, isn't it? We do not take care of our wastage.

ps theory is that oil and gas and perhaps coal too does come from the Earths mantle, that it is formed from what was there from when the Earth was first formed, it has been there all the time and does eventually find its own way to the surface ---
 
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Days

Commentator
So where is all this oil you claim is rising up out of the earth, and filling those reservoirs, coming from. Are you trying to tell me there is a vast ocean of oil deep in the core of the earth and rising up? You lose me with your theory, but I'll just accept your believing that.
ps theory is that oil and gas and perhaps coal too does come from the Earths mantle, that it is formed from what was there from when the Earth was first formed, it has been there all the time and does eventually find its own way to the surface ---
the oil is being produced - somehow - where the mantle rubs with the crust. Plate tectonics has a byproduct; volcanic activity... and volcanic activity is producing the oil. If oil was just another fossil fuel, wouldn't we find it side by side with coal? (yes)
 

Wahbooz

Governor
the oil is being produced - somehow - where the mantle rubs with the crust. Plate tectonics has a byproduct; volcanic activity... and volcanic activity is producing the oil. If oil was just another fossil fuel, wouldn't we find it side by side with coal? (yes)
"somehow".... Ok, Days, see you later.
 

Days

Commentator
Just one example, burning of coal produces millions of tons of solid waste every year, including fly ash, bottom ash, flue gas desulfurization, think acid rain, and heavy metals as well as mercury, thorium, uranium, and arsenic.
clean coal technology does deal with those byproducts. The state of Colorado fully implements clean coal technologies on all its power plants for the Denver and Colorado Springs areas. Perhaps all we really need here in Chicago is to get up to speed with adding the chemicals into the burning process?

I thought acid rain was addressed? I never see it in the media anymore.

the future is fusion. but we have to get there. In the mean time, coal is by far the main fuel for boiling water to produce steam to turn turbines... it is rather humbling to realize that this entire environmental crisis is centered around how to boil water.
 

Days

Commentator
"somehow".... Ok, Days, see you later.
yeah, we don't know everything, but we do know where the oil is coming from... it is being produced 5 miles deep, we have mapped the planet for oil reserves and there is oil all over this planet... 5 miles deep.
 

Wahbooz

Governor
yeah, we don't know everything, but we do know where the oil is coming from... it is being produced 5 miles deep, we have mapped the planet for oil reserves and there is oil all over this planet... 5 miles deep.
"5 miles deep". So now you're trying to tell me you don't even get out of the crust, and you're where all the oil is. That isn't even anywhere near even the mantle.
 

Days

Commentator
"5 miles deep". So now you're trying to tell me you don't even get out of the crust, and you're where all the oil is. That isn't even anywhere near even the mantle.
My understanding of the mantle is that it is solid rock... mostly granite, I think. How would that produce oil? But the friction that takes place between the mantle and the crust, resulting in heated rock - molten elements - is a soup of chemical reactions, and one of the things that gets produced (roughly 5-7 miles deep) is crude oil... and lots of different types of crude oil.

Exxon mapped the planet for oil - ELF wave technology - and there's way more "deep oil" than we can begin to process. The trick is to safely drill to those depths.

 

Wahbooz

Governor
My understanding of the mantle is that it is solid rock... mostly granite, I think. How would that produce oil? But the friction that takes place between the mantle and the crust, resulting in heated rock - molten elements - is a soup of chemical reactions, and one of the things that gets produced (roughly 5-7 miles deep) is crude oil... and lots of different types of crude oil.

Exxon mapped the planet for oil - ELF wave technology - and there's way more "deep oil" than we can begin to process. The trick is to safely drill to those depths.

First of all, the lithosphere can be as much as 35 miles deep, and then you get into the crust, which can be another 20 miles. You're not even into the upper part of the mantle, which can go from another 20-30 miles. So your description of oil being produced 5-7 miles down, by way of your explanation is not plausible to me.
 

Wahbooz

Governor
In the mean time, coal is by far the main fuel for boiling water to produce steam to turn turbines... it is rather humbling to realize that this entire environmental crisis is centered around how to boil water.
I disagree. Coal is less efficient than natural gas, and far dirtier. I've worked in power plants, and I've disassembled boilers.
 

Wahbooz

Governor
If oil was just another fossil fuel, wouldn't we find it side by side with coal? (yes)
Who says oil can't be found with coal, or even natural gas? They all come from what is referred to as the Carboniferous period of the Paleozoic period, when the earth was covered with flora. And some coal comes from the Cretaceous period, perhaps that coal is what you're referring to.
 

Days

Commentator
First of all, the lithosphere can be as much as 35 miles deep, and then you get into the crust, which can be another 20 miles. You're not even into the upper part of the mantle, which can go from another 20-30 miles. So your description of oil being produced 5-7 miles down, by way of your explanation is not plausible to me.
Okay, then there's no tectonic plates sliding on the mantle? And the drawing of what is common knowledge is incorrect? Doesn't the lithosphere include the crust at the top and the mantle at the bottom? Isn't this just a more exact description of how the mantle meets the crust?

There is no molten activity 5-7 miles deep/ oil produced in the same region? ... yes, there is. So what's your point? ... that the molten activity is not the result of the tectonic plates sliding against whatever you want to describe is beneath them? Didn't you make the exact same assertion? ... or that oil could not possibly be produced by that activity? Well, we really don't fully grasp what all is happening there, all I'm saying is that we have mapped the entire region for oil, and that's where all the oil is being produced.
 

Days

Commentator
I disagree. Coal is less efficient than natural gas, and far dirtier. I've worked in power plants, and I've disassembled boilers.
I've set up the staging for that type of work, been in almost every boiler in Michigan, myself.

I wasn't saying coal is the preferred fuel, or the best fuel, just that it is the major fuel... the fuel burned the most. We produce more electricity via coal fired power plants than any other fuel.

Personally, I am in a 'can't wait" mode for some better method of producing electricity to replace burning coal. I'm of the opinion that the earth's own electromagnetic field should be harvested in some way for producing electricity; skip the water boiling and the turbine program altogether.
 
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Days

Commentator
Who says oil can't be found with coal, or even natural gas? They all come from what is referred to as the Carboniferous period of the Paleozoic period, when the earth was covered with flora. And some coal comes from the Cretaceous period, perhaps that coal is what you're referring to.
No argument that coal is a fossil fuel, but what I am referring to is where 99% of the coal is found (within the first 2 1/2 miles down) and where 95% of the oil is found (over 3 miles deep)... they are located in very separate regions of the earth. Hence, they are not both the product of the same creation process.
 
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Wahbooz

Governor
Okay, then there's no tectonic plates sliding on the mantle? And the drawing of what is common knowledge is incorrect? Doesn't the lithosphere include the crust at the top and the mantle at the bottom? Isn't this just a more exact description of how the mantle meets the crust?

There is no molten activity 5-7 miles deep/ oil produced in the same region? ... yes, there is. So what's your point? ... that the molten activity is not the result of the tectonic plates sliding against whatever you want to describe is beneath them? Didn't you make the exact same assertion? ... or that oil could not possibly be produced by that activity? Well, we really don't fully grasp what all is happening there, all I'm saying is that we have mapped the entire region for oil, and that's where all the oil is being produced.
Let me reword this for you, and then I'm heading for bed, I'm tired. The lithosphere can be as much as 35 miles deep, and the crust is part of that, but it is at the most 22 miles deep. From there you reach a transitional layer called the Moho, named after Mohorovicic who discovered it in the 20th century. That sits between the upper crust and the mantle. So as I said, I fail to see how any interaction between the crust and the upper mantle produces oil that you say is found 5-7 miles deep. I know of no molten activity at this depth, but much deeper. I believe you'll find you are getting to a depth of about 100 km, or 62 miles, before you find molten activity. I could be wrong, it's been a long time.

Not being produced is my contention. Oil 'production' goes back 200-300 million years ago.
 
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Wahbooz

Governor
No, what I am referring to is where 99% of the coal is found (within the first 2 1/2 miles down) and where 95% of the oil is found (over 3 miles deep)... they are located in very separate regions of the earth.
They are found in the same geologic time period. The earth's crust is not an exact depth in all areas of the earth.
 
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