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Politics: The Study of Force?

It could be an option, but I'm leery of having all banking, medicine, industry or anything else solely controlled by a central government.

Would you object if USPS banking services exterminated Payday loans?
"USPS actually first voiced this suggestion early last year (when it was promptly and publicly taken up by Sen. Warren).

"Back then, Warren explained that 68 million Americans currently have no active checking accounts, yet still need the kinds of banking services associated with such accounts.

"To get these services, they pay through the nose.

"According to Warren, banks and -- in particular -- payday loan and check cashing stores, charge unbanked customers 'an average of $2,412 per household' annually for ordinary financial services.

"The Senator notes that 'the average underserved household spends roughly 10 percent of its annual income on interest and fees -- about the same amount they spend on food.'"
http://www.dailyfinance.com/2015/06/23/post-office-banking/
 

Max R.

On the road
Supporting Member
Would you object if USPS banking services exterminated Payday loans?
"USPS actually first voiced this suggestion early last year (when it was promptly and publicly taken up by Sen. Warren).

"Back then, Warren explained that 68 million Americans currently have no active checking accounts, yet still need the kinds of banking services associated with such accounts.

"To get these services, they pay through the nose.

"According to Warren, banks and -- in particular -- payday loan and check cashing stores, charge unbanked customers 'an average of $2,412 per household' annually for ordinary financial services.

"The Senator notes that 'the average underserved household spends roughly 10 percent of its annual income on interest and fees -- about the same amount they spend on food.'"
http://www.dailyfinance.com/2015/06/23/post-office-banking/
What would it cost taxpayers? If it was cost neutral, I'd be all for it.
 
What would it cost taxpayers? If it was cost neutral, I'd be all for it.
That's a good point. Possibly, "cost neutral" is a conservative estimation:eek:
"In May, USPS admitted to losing $1.5 billion in its most recent fiscal quarter. If the losses keep up at this rate, the Post Office's budget deficit could surpass last year's $5.5 billion loss, and swell into a $6 billion annual deficit. Last month, though, the USPS Office of Inspector General refloated an idea to close the Post Office's budget gap. Simply put, the Post Office should turn itself into a bank.

"Not entirely, of course.

"Under the Inspector General's plan, backed by Sen. Warren, USPS would still deliver mail and such. But it would also begin expanding the kinds of financial services it offers, permitting 'unbanked' and 'underbanked' customers to take out small loans, cash checks, pay bills, and open savings accounts -- all at their local post office.

"According to the Inspector General, entering this market could help USPS reap as much as $10 billion in annual revenue -- and close its budget gap with a resounding snap."
http://www.dailyfinance.com/2015/06/23/post-office-banking/
 

Max R.

On the road
Supporting Member
That's a good point. Possibly, "cost neutral" is a conservative estimation:eek:
"In May, USPS admitted to losing $1.5 billion in its most recent fiscal quarter. If the losses keep up at this rate, the Post Office's budget deficit could surpass last year's $5.5 billion loss, and swell into a $6 billion annual deficit. Last month, though, the USPS Office of Inspector General refloated an idea to close the Post Office's budget gap. Simply put, the Post Office should turn itself into a bank.

"Not entirely, of course.

"Under the Inspector General's plan, backed by Sen. Warren, USPS would still deliver mail and such. But it would also begin expanding the kinds of financial services it offers, permitting 'unbanked' and 'underbanked' customers to take out small loans, cash checks, pay bills, and open savings accounts -- all at their local post office.

"According to the Inspector General, entering this market could help USPS reap as much as $10 billion in annual revenue -- and close its budget gap with a resounding snap."
http://www.dailyfinance.com/2015/06/23/post-office-banking/
I support this idea. Let's realize that the cost of increased security at your local post office would have to be factored into the equation.
 
I support this idea. Let's realize that the cost of increased security at your local post office would have to be factored into the equation.
"What It Means to You

"Of course, if you already have a bank account, you may think USPS's plan is interesting, but not really relevant to you.

"It could become relevant, however.

In recent months, we've seen multiple stories of traditional banks closing down their physical branches to cut costs and take advantage of the cheapness of online banking.

"SNL Financial reports 332 bank closures across the U.S. in the first quarter of 2015.

"One single bank, JPMorgan Chase (JPM), says it's planning to close 300 branches over the next two years.

"Assuming this trend continues, finding a physical branch of your bank at which you can cash a check or get a money order when you need it could become increasingly difficult.

"Knowing that the local post office can help you out, on the other hand, could turn increasingly attractive."
http://www.dailyfinance.com/2015/06/23/post-office-banking/

Between 1910 and 1964(?) USPS provided many of these same services to their customers. Back to the future?
 
Philosophy is often divided into five branches summarized below.
"There is a hierarchical relationship between these branches as can be seen in the Concept Chart.

"At the root is Metaphysics, the study of existence and the nature of existence.

"Closely related is Epistemology, the study of knowledge and how we know about reality and existence. Dependent on Epistemology is Ethics, the study of how man should act.

"Ethics is dependent on Epistemology because it is impossible to make choices without knowledge.

"A subset of Ethics is Politics: the study of how men should interact in a proper society and what constitutes proper..."
http://www.importanceofphilosophy.com/FiveBranchesMain.html
"Politics is ethics applied to a group of people."
"The requirement for a political system is that the individuals within that system are allowed to fully function according to their nature. If that's not the case, they will either rebel, as in Czarist Russia, or the system will eventually collapse, as in Communist Russia.

"Reason is man's prime means of survival.

"A human being can not survive in an environment where reason is ineffective, and will thrive or starve to a degree in proportion to the effectiveness of reason.

"This means that the prime goal of a political system must be the preservation and enabling of the faculty of reason."
http://www.importanceofphilosophy.com/Politics_Main.html

''........If that's not the case, they will either rebel, as in Czarist Russia,'' It was not a rebellion/revolution it was a coup d'etat.
 
The oligarchs, obviously.
Virtually every government for the last five hundred years, at least, has been controlled by its oligarchs, and capitalism has created more oligarchs than all previous economic systems combined.

Gravity is a universal force.
Capitalism is not.
Please stop being afraid of rich folk.:p
Crunch, Crunch! Squish, Squish!

We far outnumber the plutocrats and their heirs and can crush them like grapes. It's time to quit whining and start making wine.
 

Max R.

On the road
Supporting Member
Socialism, as a stand alone economic system, has been proven to be a failure time and time again. Instead of bringing everyone down to the same level, why not work to solve the problems inherent with capitalism?

Note the US standard of living compared to the rest of the world. Why do socialists want to drag us down to the level of Third World Countries? Our poor have refrigerators, television, electricity, running water and, more often than not, a car or access to public transportation.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/07/09/how-americans-compare-with-the-global-middle-class/



http://www.mapsofworld.com/world-top-ten/world-top-ten-quality-of-life-map.html

Compare your favorite socialist paradise Cuba: http://www.amigospais-guaracabuya.org/oagjr002.php
".....Such is the horrible reality of economic life in Cuba. The standard of living is less than 1% of what it was before the communist revolution. It is sufficient only to read a few letters from the island country today to agree that such brutal impoverishment is the terrible representation of daily life in Cuba.

Many of my 'American' friends, of course, experience an infinite difficulty accepting these facts that they clearly understand. Many would mention 'free public health' and 'free housing'. So, what can we add to answer those questions…? Simply that those who know, understand that the 'famous' public health system in Cuba is a hygienic disaster, lacking in the most basic medicines, facilities and resources. And that housing includes innumerable families forced to live sharing run-down homes. Not to mention public transportation, electric power, the so called telephone system, water supplies and sewers… Of course, the concept that there are 'free' things in this world has gotten out of favor with those who use our God-given reasoning. Simply stated, 'free' things supplied by the government are no more that one of the 'slogans' of communism for those who do not want to accept that man is individually and basically responsible for his own life in this world.
"
 
Socialism, as a stand alone economic system, has been proven to be a failure time and time again. Instead of bringing everyone down to the same level, why not work to solve the problems inherent with capitalism?
Socialism is one of six specific historical stages with each stage coming into existence only after its predecessor self-destructs. Hunter-gather societies gave way to slavery which turned into feudalism, which morphed into capitalism.

Socialism can NOT exist until capitalism collapses from its inherent contradictions.


"The Marxist conception of socialism is that of a specific historical phase that will displace capitalism and precede communism.

"The major characteristics of socialism (particularly as conceived by Marx and Engels after the Paris Commune of 1871) are that the proletariat will control the means of production through a workers' state erected by the workers in their interests.

"Economic activity would still be organised through the use of incentive systems and social classes would still exist, but to a lesser and diminishing extent than under capitalism."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism#Marxism
 
Note the US standard of living compared to the rest of the world. Why do socialists want to drag us down to the level of Third World Countries? Our poor have refrigerators, television, electricity, running water and, more often than not, a car or access to public transportation.
Why do you believe providing US citizens with Medicare for all and free public education from kindergarten through grad school "drags us down to the level of Third World?" IMHO, such changes would simply eliminate many of the "free riders" in our current economic system.
 

Max R.

On the road
Supporting Member
Why do you believe providing US citizens with Medicare for all and free public education from kindergarten through grad school "drags us down to the level of Third World?" IMHO, such changes would simply eliminate many of the "free riders" in our current economic system.
Using "free" is deceiving. Most intelligent people know nothing run by our government is "free".
 
Socialism is one of six specific historical stages with each stage coming into existence only after its predecessor self-destructs. Hunter-gather societies gave way to slavery which turned into feudalism, which morphed into capitalism.

Socialism can NOT exist until capitalism collapses from its inherent contradictions.


"The Marxist conception of socialism is that of a specific historical phase that will displace capitalism and precede communism.

"The major characteristics of socialism (particularly as conceived by Marx and Engels after the Paris Commune of 1871) are that the proletariat will control the means of production through a workers' state erected by the workers in their interests.

"Economic activity would still be organised through the use of incentive systems and social classes would still exist, but to a lesser and diminishing extent than under capitalism."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism#Marxism
I do not agree --- Look at The Three Fold Commonwealth --- No time now, get back to you another day on this xxx
 
Socialism is one of six specific historical stages with each stage coming into existence only after its predecessor self-destructs. Hunter-gather societies gave way to slavery which turned into feudalism, which morphed into capitalism.

Socialism can NOT exist until capitalism collapses from its inherent contradictions.


"The Marxist conception of socialism is that of a specific historical phase that will displace capitalism and precede communism.

"The major characteristics of socialism (particularly as conceived by Marx and Engels after the Paris Commune of 1871) are that the proletariat will control the means of production through a workers' state erected by the workers in their interests.

"Economic activity would still be organised through the use of incentive systems and social classes would still exist, but to a lesser and diminishing extent than under capitalism."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism#Marxism
How do you know Socialism is an etched in stone historical phase when its existence relies upon the collapse of capitalism? capitalism is relatively new so what history are you reading?
 
How do you know Socialism is an etched in stone historical phase when its existence relies upon the collapse of capitalism? capitalism is relatively new so what history are you reading?
Marx was predicting the future based upon his reading of history.

"In capitalism, the profit motive rules and people, freed from serfdom for that purpose, to work for the capitalists in exchange of wages.

"The capitalist class are free to spread their laissez faire practices around the world.

"In the capitalist-controlled parliament, laws are made to protect wealth.

"But according to Marx, capitalism, like slave society and feudalism, also has critical failings—inner contradictions which will lead to its downfall.

"The working class, to which the capitalist class gave birth in order to produce commodities and profits, is the 'grave digger' of capitalism.

"The worker is not paid the full value of what he or she produces.

"The rest is surplus value—the capitalist's profit, which Marx calls the 'unpaid labour of the working class.'

"The capitalists are forced by technological advances and partially by competition to drive down the wages of the working class to increase their profits, and this creates a more direct conflict between these classes, and gives rise to the development of class consciousness in the working class.

"The working class, through trade union and other struggles, becomes conscious of itself as an exploited class."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marx's_theory_of_history#The_stages_of_history
 
Using "free" is deceiving. Most intelligent people know nothing run by our government is "free".
Bernie's claiming a $500 increase in taxes could save US consumers $5000 in medical expenses per year. Sure, it ain't free, but it's better than what currently passes for medical care in the US. As far as education is concerned, if poor countries can afford to pay the cost of medical school for their future doctors and pay the living expenses of the future doctors while they are in school, the richest country in history should be able to do likewise.
 
Marx was predicting the future based upon his reading of history.

"In capitalism, the profit motive rules and people, freed from serfdom for that purpose, to work for the capitalists in exchange of wages.

"The capitalist class are free to spread their laissez faire practices around the world.

"In the capitalist-controlled parliament, laws are made to protect wealth.

"But according to Marx, capitalism, like slave society and feudalism, also has critical failings—inner contradictions which will lead to its downfall.

"The working class, to which the capitalist class gave birth in order to produce commodities and profits, is the 'grave digger' of capitalism.

"The worker is not paid the full value of what he or she produces.

"The rest is surplus value—the capitalist's profit, which Marx calls the 'unpaid labour of the working class.'

"The capitalists are forced by technological advances and partially by competition to drive down the wages of the working class to increase their profits, and this creates a more direct conflict between these classes, and gives rise to the development of class consciousness in the working class.

"The working class, through trade union and other struggles, becomes conscious of itself as an exploited class."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marx's_theory_of_history#The_stages_of_history
So in other words you have nothing but a prediction from one man...of questionable motives.
 
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