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Just how dumb are Democrat leaders

Dawg

President
Supporting Member
and yet it was republicans who controlled both the congress and the White House and brought us the worst economy since 1929 and two badly mismanaged wars...and you are so intelligent that you continue to vote for them....Is that because they didn't do enough damage from 2001 to 2007?
Americans don't think as you do, who has the majority?
 
S

Sickofleft

Guest
Obama tried to renegotiate with Maliki and Maliki refused.
The Obama Administration never put one serious proposal on the table, forced Maliki into a corner. When he could not sign a new SOFA they had the withdraw they wanted for the 2012 campaign.

President Obama "ended" the Iraq war as irresponsibly as it was started for a campaign slogan.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
The Obama Administration never put one serious proposal on the table, forced Maliki into a corner. When he could not sign a new SOFA they had the withdraw they wanted for the 2012 campaign.

President Obama "ended" the Iraq war as irresponsibly as it was started for a campaign slogan.
Maliki turned down a serious proposal. He would not budge on US troops standing trial in Iraqi courts....and neither would Obama. I guess you'd be ok with American soldiers accused of crimes being a guest in an Iraqi jail and sitting in an Iraqi court. Not me.

Add to that the fact that US troops could only have made a difference if they did the fighting to take the place of the retreating Iraqi army.

If it was a bad idea to completely withdraw, why did Bush sign the SOFA in December of 2008 instead of leaving it up to Obama to make the decision?
 

Jen

Senator
and yet it was republicans who controlled both the congress and the White House and brought us the worst economy since 1929 and two badly mismanaged wars...and you are so intelligent that you continue to vote for them....Is that because they didn't do enough damage from 2001 to 2007?
@middleview pivots, not so cleverly, and tries to change the subject of the OP away from the leaders he is following like a moonstruck puppy.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
@middleview pivots, not so cleverly, and tries to change the subject of the OP away from the leaders he is following like a moonstruck puppy.
Once again, you cannot deal with the facts and have to resort to attacking anyone who disagrees with you. The nation is far better off today than it was the day Bush left office.

Democrats, top to bottom, are so dumb they would rather sacrifice our nation to embers than allow anyone but them run it. They are intent on destroying the USA.

As far as moonstruck puppies go...have you begun to see the truth...Emperor Trump has lied about wire taps, fraudulent votes, Ted Cruz's dad, releasing his tax returns and has failed to repeal Obamacare. Tell me again how it is good for the country to vote for republicans.
 

Jen

Senator
Once again, you cannot deal with the facts and have to resort to attacking anyone who disagrees with you. The nation is far better off today than it was the day Bush left office.

Democrats, top to bottom, are so dumb they would rather sacrifice our nation to embers than allow anyone but them run it. They are intent on destroying the USA.

As far as moonstruck puppies go...have you begun to see the truth...Emperor Trump has lied about wire taps, fraudulent votes, Ted Cruz's dad, releasing his tax returns and has failed to repeal Obamacare. Tell me again how it is good for the country to vote for republicans.
Here, @middleview. Put this stuff here and I'll post to it. https://www.politicaljack.com/threads/republicans-utter-failure.101110/
 

worldlymrb

Revenge
As if there are no radical extremists on the republican side....
Radical extremist on the GOP side just want to Make America Great Again, pay less taxes, less wars, less spying, a return to a constitutional republic and could care less about a New World Order & Globalism.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
Radical extremist on the GOP side just want to Make America Great Again, pay less taxes, less wars, less spying, a return to a constitutional republic and could care less about a New World Order & Globalism.
No. The radical extremists on the right want to eliminate any kind of social safety net in favor of an increase in military spending, decreased taxes on business and the wealthy...an elimination of unions and regulation of business. That is the far right....the people who think we should have taken the Iraqi oil as payment for having invaded their country.

Less war? It was republicans who brought us Iraq and Afghanistan. It was republicans who brought us warrant-less wiretaps and Guantanamo.

America was great before the Bush recession. Obama put us back on track. I fear what Trump has in mind.
 

Dawg

President
Supporting Member
Once again, you cannot deal with the facts and have to resort to attacking anyone who disagrees with you. The nation is far better off today than it was the day Bush left office.

Democrats, top to bottom, are so dumb they would rather sacrifice our nation to embers than allow anyone but them run it. They are intent on destroying the USA.

As far as moonstruck puppies go...have you begun to see the truth...Emperor Trump has lied about wire taps, fraudulent votes, Ted Cruz's dad, releasing his tax returns and has failed to repeal Obamacare. Tell me again how it is good for the country to vote for republicans.
You will be banned for continually writing posts with no actual content.

Flaming, and comments that add nothing to the discussion are grounds for banning.

You know who you are and it is getting out of hand and cluttering up the board.

Add to the discussion or accept the ban.

Thank you for your understanding.



SW48, Oct 7, 2014 Report

BUSH IS NOT TOPIC..................evidently NO CONTENT.........doesn't apply to you

IMO, the damn rule should be removed from front page if not enforced...............
 

Raoul_Luke

I feel a bit lightheaded. Maybe you should drive.
I have no doubt that from your extreme right-wing perspective, it's hard to discern a difference between someone like me and someone like EatTheRich. But that's a trick of perspective -- viewed from your extreme angle, all the distance between us is foreshortened to nothing. In reality, he and I have had vigorous debates repeatedly. There is a huge difference between those people who think capitalism is irredeemably flawed and those of us who think it is a fundamentally solid basis for a system, so long as it is sufficiently complemented and mitigated by non-capitalist influences. The former group believes only revolutionary change will help, and thus views with suspicion half measures that may merely delay the necessary revolution, while the latter group believes that in the big picture we've been heading in the right direction and should press on, even if all we can manage at the moment are small, intermittent advances. The former thinks we have much more to gain than lose through radical disruption, while the latter is not at all sure that's the case.
So basically you are saying you "disagree" on the extent to which capitalism has failed, and the level of "anti-capitalism" you prefer as a "remedy." I call that a distinction without a difference. And the fact of the matter is that, regardless of the issue, you two are on the same side - single payer, taxing the rich, expanded welfare and unchecked immigration. You two see eye to eye on them all.

You went to great length to suggest a difference that doesn't exist. I suppose it would be too much to ask what positions of his you disagree with completely (because there are none).
 

Boca

Governor
As for the idea of a refugee welcome basket, that sounds like an excellent idea. Including a voter registration form may be a bit premature, since it'll be at least six months to become a US citizens, and more commonly five years, but hopefully the refugees will be able to gain citizenship before too long, and perhaps a registration form will serve as an incentive to get that process going as soon as possible.
Except those who don't speak or can't read English and haven't a clue what it is, but it strikes them as important to the process and ask someone to help them fill it out. Preferably before they leave the building.
 
The US invasion/occupation of Iraq has produced the greatest refugee flow since the end of WWII with no end in sight.

Because of its war of aggression, the US has a moral obligation to protect the dignity and human rights of our victims.

Since there is no group of people on the planet that we know more about than refugees who have already resettled in the US, it seems cowardly, at best, to indulge our fear instead of compassion towards those we have wronged.
http://news.northeastern.edu/2017/03/professor-calls-helping-refugees-a-moral-obligation-for-us/
The refugee crisis came after Libya not Iraq.
 
The refugee crisis came after Libya not Iraq.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugees_of_Iraq#Iraq_War_.282003.E2.80.9311.29

"Refugees from Iraq have increased in number since the US-led invasion into Iraq in March 2003. After Saddam Hussein fell in 2003, over 30,000 refugees returned home within two years. But by 2006, they were fleeing again due to sectarian violence that culminated with the al-Askari mosque bombing in February 2006.[1][2][4]

"The US occupation and ethnic conflict among Iraqis ended the minority Sunni governance and allowed the Shi’ite majority to regain control, which worried Iraq’s Sunni majority neighbors, including Saudi Arabia. Terrorist organizations like Al Qaeda have taken advantage of the chaos and violence to establish a presence in Iraq.[5]

"By 16 February 2007, António Guterres, the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees, said that the external refugee number fleeing the war reached 2 million and that within Iraq there are an estimated 1.7 million internally displaced people.[10][11]

"The refugee traffic out of the country has increased since the intensification of civil war.[10][12]

"As many as 110,000 Iraqis could be targeted as collaborators because of their work for coalition forces.[13] A May 25, 2007 article notes that in the past seven months only 69 people from Iraq have been granted refugee status in the United States.[14] Roughly 40% of Iraq's middle class is believed to have fled.[2][15][16] Most are fleeing systematic persecution and have no desire to return.[15]"
 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugees_of_Iraq#Iraq_War_.282003.E2.80.9311.29

"Refugees from Iraq have increased in number since the US-led invasion into Iraq in March 2003. After Saddam Hussein fell in 2003, over 30,000 refugees returned home within two years. But by 2006, they were fleeing again due to sectarian violence that culminated with the al-Askari mosque bombing in February 2006.[1][2][4]

"The US occupation and ethnic conflict among Iraqis ended the minority Sunni governance and allowed the Shi’ite majority to regain control, which worried Iraq’s Sunni majority neighbors, including Saudi Arabia. Terrorist organizations like Al Qaeda have taken advantage of the chaos and violence to establish a presence in Iraq.[5]

"By 16 February 2007, António Guterres, the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees, said that the external refugee number fleeing the war reached 2 million and that within Iraq there are an estimated 1.7 million internally displaced people.[10][11]

"The refugee traffic out of the country has increased since the intensification of civil war.[10][12]

"As many as 110,000 Iraqis could be targeted as collaborators because of their work for coalition forces.[13] A May 25, 2007 article notes that in the past seven months only 69 people from Iraq have been granted refugee status in the United States.[14] Roughly 40% of Iraq's middle class is believed to have fled.[2][15][16] Most are fleeing systematic persecution and have no desire to return.[15]"
There is no question that war make refugees, of course it always does, but the truly uncontrollable and unstoppable refugee crisis in this monstrous war began after Libya because it opened up the whole of Africa -
 

Corruptbuddha

Governor
LoL

To say that in a serious manner, she's either dumber than I thought or she thinks that the people are. As we know from Jonathan Gruber most Democrat leaders take that for granted....which means she has a future in the party.

H'mm, maybe that's why she made such a ridiculous statement in the first place? Yeah....come to think of it maybe she's smarter than I thought.
Is she smarter than Trump?
[/QUOTE]

Just how do you suppose anyone 'installed' Trump as president? I'm sick and tired of this meme. Putin didn't keep Clinton from campaigning in Michigan or Wisconsin. Putin didn't call people 'deplorables'. Putin didn't cheat Sanders. Putin didn't present a nominee who was so lackluster that millions were turned off by her. Some to the extent they went from voting for Obama, to voting to Trump.

You want to know who's to blame for Trump? Look no further then the DNC.
 

Arkady

President
So basically you are saying you "disagree" on the extent to which capitalism has failed, and the level of "anti-capitalism" you prefer as a "remedy." I call that a distinction without a difference.
Exactly! Your perspective is so extreme that to you the distinction makes no difference. Yet, in the real world, it matters a great deal.

Let's go with a more prosaic analogy. Think of it in terms of metallurgy. Let's say we're arguing about whether copper or tin makes a better material for a sword. You may think copper does, since it's denser and holds a better edge than tin. I may agree with you, if those are our only two choices. But what if we alloyed a mixture of mostly copper and some tin? Now you've got bronze, which makes better swords than either constituent metal. And there are other metals out there that are even better (e.g., steel). So it would be a mistake to get locked into the dichotomy as presented.

Similarly, if the choice were between pure capitalism and pure socialism, I would come down on the side of capitalism, since I think it's more consistent with human nature and produces better results (a position I suspect Eattherich would disagree with). But that doesn't mean I think that the closer we get to 100% capitalism the better, any more than the closer a bronze gets to 100% copper the better. The optimal mix may have quite a bit of socialism in it. And there may be other, better systems out there than either of those.

I'm a practical guy. I want to go with what works in the real world, rather than taking a quasi-religious view in favor of the purity of one thing or another. Since every major nation in history that has achieved a high general quality of life is built along the same lines (a capitalism/socialism alloy, in proportions ranging from around 80/20 to around 50/50), that's what I believe works well. If someone finds something that works better in the real world, I'm open to it, but for now I'm going with what's been working.

I suppose it would be too much to ask what positions of his you disagree with completely (because there are none).
You can find our long debates in the forum's searchable archives.
 
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