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300,000,000+ guns floating around in our society



the most heavily armed states (per capita) are a half dozen "hunting states", where people might own separate weapons for (a) deer season (b) duck season (c) rabbit/crow control. These are states with low murder rates.

the states with the highest murder rates (California, Ohio, NJ, NY) have the lowest gun ownership rates.

which means one of two things:

1 - there is no relationship between gun ownership rates and murder rates

or (2) - the gun statistics are completely imaginary, since we don't have a gun registration system. these statistics were created by people on the left and right with political agendas.
 

Arkady

President
Do you think the gun madness will ever end?
There will always be shootings of this sort. Even countries with strong gun control have them. But we do have some control over how frequent they are. A somewhat similar event in the past, when a couple Republicans were shot, launched a movement to rein in the problem, culminating in the passage of the Brady Bill. In the years after it passed, murder rates plummeted. Not all of that was due to gun control, to be sure. There are lots of things people cite as reasons that the US rapidly became less violent after 1993, the year that (coincidentally?) Brady passed. But, significantly, firearms-related crimes, both homicides and non-fatal crimes, dropped at faster rates (39% and 69%, respectively) between 1993 and 2011 than overall violent crime did (37%). That's consistent with the idea that we weren't just becoming less violent by nature, but rather that controls on guns were helping to save lives and prevent crimes.

https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?iid=4616&ty=pbdetail
http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm

I don't expect similar gun control to result from this event, since the GOP has changed so much that it's hard to picture a leading Republican becoming a leading gun control advocate, the way Brady did. But, still, the power is in our hands to tone down the gun madness if we choose.
 
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Craig

Senator
Supporting Member


the most heavily armed states (per capita) are a half dozen "hunting states", where people might own separate weapons for (a) deer season (b) duck season (c) rabbit/crow control. These are states with low murder rates.

the states with the highest murder rates (California, Ohio, NJ, NY) have the lowest gun ownership rates.

which means one of two things:

1 - there is no relationship between gun ownership rates and murder rates

or (2) - the gun statistics are completely imaginary, since we don't have a gun registration system. these statistics were created by people on the left and right with political agendas.

I know this will come as a shock, but once again, you present incorrect information...

the states with the highest murder rates (California, Ohio, NJ, NY) have the lowest gun ownership rates.
Louisiana...Mississippi...Alaska...Maryland...Missouri...South Carolina...and Alabama lead the list of highest murder rate. The 4 states you list...not so much.

https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/murder-rates-nationally-and-state#MRord

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2016/07/29/americas-most-violent-and-peacefulstates/87658252/
 

Arkady

President
the states with the highest murder rates (California, Ohio, NJ, NY) have the lowest gun ownership rates.

which means one of two things:
Thing Number One:

You didn't bother to do even the most basic research before posting this silliness. The highest murder rates aren't in CA, OH, NJ, and NY. They rank 21st, 27th, 29th, and 36th, respectively.

https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/murder-rates-nationally-and-state#MRord

The highest rates are in the South: Louisiana, Mississippi, Maryland, Missouri, and South Carolina. It's not even close, either. The rate in Louisiana is 10.3, versus 3.1 in New York, meaning someone in Louisiana is well over three times as likely to be murdered.
 

Bugsy McGurk

President


the most heavily armed states (per capita) are a half dozen "hunting states", where people might own separate weapons for (a) deer season (b) duck season (c) rabbit/crow control. These are states with low murder rates.

the states with the highest murder rates (California, Ohio, NJ, NY) have the lowest gun ownership rates.

which means one of two things:

1 - there is no relationship between gun ownership rates and murder rates

or (2) - the gun statistics are completely imaginary, since we don't have a gun registration system. these statistics were created by people on the left and right with political agendas.
If only we had more guns.
 

freyasman

Senator
Spamarkabugsyview feeling a twinge of guilt over your fellow Republican-hater's little "outburst" today?
I'm concerned that the shooting has started; we talked about this before, and how it was going to be a shitstorm.
OTOH I gotta admit, it's about time Congress had some skin in the game.
 

Arkady

President
I know this will come as a shock, but once again, you present incorrect information...



Louisiana...Mississippi...Alaska...Maryland...Missouri...South Carolina...and Alabama lead the list of highest murder rate. The 4 states you list...not so much.

https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/murder-rates-nationally-and-state#MRord

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2016/07/29/americas-most-violent-and-peacefulstates/87658252/
The complete absence of any regard for the truth among right-wingers is really interesting. She simply asserted her belief that CA, OH, NJ, and NY were the states with the highest murder rates, even though every single one of those has a lower murder rate than the national average.

The truth is, low-gun states tend to have below-average murder. Of the palest states on her map, only Delaware has more murder than average. Similarly, low-gun nations tend to have lower murder rates than the US.
 

Bugsy McGurk

President
The complete absence of any regard for the truth among right-wingers is really interesting. She simply asserted her belief that CA, OH, NJ, and NY were the states with the highest murder rates, even though every single one of those has a lower murder rate than the national average.

The truth is, low-gun states tend to have below-average murder. Of the palest states on her map, only Delaware has more murder than average. Similarly, low-gun nations tend to have lower murder rates than the US.
Their lies just keep flowing. Endlessly. It's the only way to peddle right wing insanity. Reality and right wing ideology cannot be squared.
 
I know this will come as a shock, but once again, you present incorrect information...



Louisiana...Mississippi...Alaska...Maryland...Missouri...South Carolina...and Alabama lead the list of highest murder rate. The 4 states you list...not so much.

https://deathpenaltyinfo.org/murder-rates-nationally-and-state#MRord

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2016/07/29/americas-most-violent-and-peacefulstates/87658252/
oh yeah - everyone KNOWS you're much safer in east LA or NYC than in lousiana or Alaska.

 

Craig

Senator
Supporting Member
The complete absence of any regard for the truth among right-wingers is really interesting. She simply asserted her belief that CA, OH, NJ, and NY were the states with the highest murder rates, even though every single one of those has a lower murder rate than the national average.

The truth is, low-gun states tend to have below-average murder. Of the palest states on her map, only Delaware has more murder than average. Similarly, low-gun nations tend to have lower murder rates than the US.
Her analysis is so absurdly faulty as to make me laugh out loud...not an internet lol...but an actual laugh.

4 of the worst states are in the south...and have high levels of gun ownership AND high murder rates...but the info presented is analyzed thusly:

1 - there is no relationship between gun ownership rates and murder rates

or (2) - the gun statistics are completely imaginary, since we don't have a gun registration system. these statistics were created by people on the left and right with political agendas.
This failure to approach reality is spectacular. So spectacular, and done so frequently, one wonders if it isn't done on purpose, just to muddy the water.
 

Craig

Senator
Supporting Member
oh yeah - everyone KNOWS you're much safer in east LA or NYC than in lousiana or Alaska.

You surely...surely...know the difference between states and cities, don't you?

Such sad and pathetic attempts at conflation don't impress me.
 

MrMike

Bless you all
Spamarkabugsyview feeling a twinge of guilt over your fellow Republican-hater's little "outburst" today?
Typical lefty. Blame a gun, blame a flag, blame old statues/monuments, blame police, but never...ever...blame the person committing the act
 

Craig

Senator
Supporting Member
The complete absence of any regard for the truth among right-wingers is really interesting. She simply asserted her belief that CA, OH, NJ, and NY were the states with the highest murder rates, even though every single one of those has a lower murder rate than the national average.

The truth is, low-gun states tend to have below-average murder. Of the palest states on her map, only Delaware has more murder than average. Similarly, low-gun nations tend to have lower murder rates than the US.
And she now tries to distract from that sad attempt by digging deeper...and showing a list of cities.
 
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