A little rocket science

[Days]

It seems that the history of America going to the moon 1970-ish is a political argument. You can post about how ridiculous the science is, until you are blue in the face, and always the response will be political.

Look, if you truly hope to send a payload beyond the earth's gravity, it has to be something small, look at the size of satellites and probes, the payload for humans sharing a cabin was enormous compared to what really made it beyond the earth's gravity.

How far out into space does the earth's gravity reach? The answer is, it reaches to infinity, but it dissipates in strength the same as visible light dissipates as it travels out in every direction.

If you want to travel to the moon, how far do you have to travel before the moon's gravity equals the pull on your space craft from the earth's gravity? the answer is 6/7ths of the distance, because the moon's gravity is 1/6th the gravity of the earth. So how far is that? If we use 230,000 miles as an average distance, our space craft needs to travel 197,000 miles to reach the break even point with the moon's gravity.

Now let's remember what the Apollo missions did. The Saturn rocket had two booster rockets; they were 9/10ths of the rocket, they were used to escape the earth's gravity. Remember, the earth's gravity does not end at the same point as the earth's atmosphere, in fact, extremely little gravitational pull has dissipated beyond the earth's atmosphere, you only need to travel 100 miles up to escape the atmosphere, you have to travel 197,000 miles to escape the earth's gravity.

So what happened? The Apollo missions burned through their two booster rockets and discarded them immediately. The first booster rocket blasted the mission 250 miles up and away from the earth, this was quite a bit beyond the atmosphere but hardly at all away from the earth's gravity. The 2nd booster rocket then propelled the space craft into a 17,500 mph orbit of the earth. We call that "low Earth orbit" because it was only 250 miles from the surface of the earth.

Now, the mission is over. The space craft has no more booster rockets, it can proceed no further. 97% of the rocket fuel is spent, there simply is no more fuel for the manned space craft to go any further beyond the 250 mile low earth orbit.

duh

 

[Fast Eddy]

How to get past the Van Alen Belt is a huge question that NASA doesn't have an answer for. When a metal object hits the VA Belt X-rays are produced in mass, enough to fry the Astronaughts. That is listed as a major problem why we can't go back to the moon. How did it work the first time???

 

[Hmmmm]

It seems that the history of America going to the moon 1970-ish is a political argument. You can post about how ridiculous the science is, until you are blue in the face, and always the response will be political.

Look, if you truly hope to send a payload beyond the earth's gravity, it has to be something small, look at the size of satellites and probes, the payload for humans sharing a cabin was enormous compared to what really made it beyond the earth's gravity.

How far out into space does the earth's gravity reach? The answer is, it reaches to infinity, but it dissipates in strength the same as visible light dissipates as it travels out in every direction.

If you want to travel to the moon, how far do you have to travel before the moon's gravity equals the pull on your space craft from the earth's gravity? the answer is 6/7ths of the distance, because the moon's gravity is 1/6th the gravity of the earth. So how far is that? If we use 230,000 miles as an average distance, our space craft needs to travel 197,000 miles to reach the break even point with the moon's gravity.

Now let's remember what the Apollo missions did. The Saturn rocket had two booster rockets; they were 9/10ths of the rocket, they were used to escape the earth's gravity. Remember, the earth's gravity does not end at the same point as the earth's atmosphere, in fact, extremely little gravitational pull has dissipated beyond the earth's atmosphere, you only need to travel 100 miles up to escape the atmosphere, you have to travel 197,000 miles to escape the earth's gravity.

So what happened? The Apollo missions burned through their two booster rockets and discarded them immediately. The first booster rocket blasted the mission 250 miles up and away from the earth, this was quite a bit beyond the atmosphere but hardly at all away from the earth's gravity. The 2nd booster rocket then propelled the space craft into a 17,500 mph orbit of the earth. We call that "low Earth orbit" because it was only 250 miles from the surface of the earth.

Now, the mission is over. The space craft has no more booster rockets, it can proceed no further. 97% of the rocket fuel is spent, there simply is no more fuel for the manned space craft to go any further beyond the 250 mile low earth orbit.

duh

The problems with believing your self education is better than people who have spent their lives doing this stuff. I am no expert but know enough to realize how wrong you are. You assume many things incorrectly.

There were three stages, not two.

You make it sound as if it is a linear problem associated with distance from the Earth. It isn't. It is about velocity. Or, the change in velocity (Delta V or dV). Escape velocity (~11km/s) to leave Earth's gravity. And, it isn't linear.

Getting to LEO is hard. You have to start from zero velocity and end up with dV of ~7.3km/s (drag etc. brings it up to just over 9). You have to battle the atmospheric drag which is increased as you go faster (square of velocity) but is reduced with increased altitude due to atmospheric thinning. You have to carry a shit-load of fuel and the heavy-assed rocket to use it. As you expend fuel, you loose weight. Less weight to boost to increase velocity (dV). Break the rocket into pieces to reduce weight by jettisoning parts (stages) as fuel is used. As you drop a stage, the weight loss makes the job of changing velocity easier. The optimum number of stages is beyond me but adding stages adds rocket motor weight for each stage.

By the time you reach LEO, you are mostly out of the atmosphere and you have jettisoned most of your rocket weight. Getting the rest of the dV needed is much easier and requires much less fuel.

Best general description of the rocket and the process of getting it into LEO and to the moon. "A must read!" says Hmmmm
https://www.space.com/26572-how-it-worked-the-apollo-spacecraft-infographic.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta-v#Delta-vs_around_the_Solar_System

https://www.wired.com/2015/09/whats-special-low-earth-orbit/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-lunar_injection

Lots of numbers:
http://georgetyson.com/files/apollostatistics.pdf

This isn't straight-forward shit and is why getting a physics degree is hard. Getting to the moon is beyond my mathematical skills and, apparently, way beyond yours.

This is why I refer to you as one of the tin-foil hat brigade. Well, I just started that anyway.

 

[Hmmmm]

How to get past the Van Alen Belt is a huge question that NASA doesn't have an answer for.

Actually they do. Several years ago when I was here before, this was all discussed in detail. it is possible and has been done.

That is listed as a major problem why we can't go back to the moon.

Listed by who? Or is it whom? Anyway, while a concern that must be accounted for it only seems to be impossible task for science deniers and bat-shit crazy conspiracy theorists.

 

[resident_evil]

It seems that the history of America going to the moon 1970-ish is a political argument. You can post about how ridiculous the science is, until you are blue in the face, and always the response will be political.

Look, if you truly hope to send a payload beyond the earth's gravity, it has to be something small, look at the size of satellites and probes, the payload for humans sharing a cabin was enormous compared to what really made it beyond the earth's gravity.

How far out into space does the earth's gravity reach? The answer is, it reaches to infinity, but it dissipates in strength the same as visible light dissipates as it travels out in every direction.

If you want to travel to the moon, how far do you have to travel before the moon's gravity equals the pull on your space craft from the earth's gravity? the answer is 6/7ths of the distance, because the moon's gravity is 1/6th the gravity of the earth. So how far is that? If we use 230,000 miles as an average distance, our space craft needs to travel 197,000 miles to reach the break even point with the moon's gravity.

Now let's remember what the Apollo missions did. The Saturn rocket had two booster rockets; they were 9/10ths of the rocket, they were used to escape the earth's gravity. Remember, the earth's gravity does not end at the same point as the earth's atmosphere, in fact, extremely little gravitational pull has dissipated beyond the earth's atmosphere, you only need to travel 100 miles up to escape the atmosphere, you have to travel 197,000 miles to escape the earth's gravity.

So what happened? The Apollo missions burned through their two booster rockets and discarded them immediately. The first booster rocket blasted the mission 250 miles up and away from the earth, this was quite a bit beyond the atmosphere but hardly at all away from the earth's gravity. The 2nd booster rocket then propelled the space craft into a 17,500 mph orbit of the earth. We call that "low Earth orbit" because it was only 250 miles from the surface of the earth.

Now, the mission is over. The space craft has no more booster rockets, it can proceed no further. 97% of the rocket fuel is spent, there simply is no more fuel for the manned space craft to go any further beyond the 250 mile low earth orbit.

duh

So all the other spacecraft such as Voyager (and the many more) are also fake? They couldn't escape earth's gravity? How about the spacecraft that have intercepted meteors and supposedly brought back samples, are they fake? Where does the fakery end and why?

 

[Corruptbuddha]

It's these kinds of posts that causes people to NEVER take you seriously. Ever.

 

[Days]

The problems with believing your self education is better than people who have spent their lives doing this stuff. I am no expert but know enough to realize how wrong you are. You assume many things incorrectly.

There were three stages, not two.

You make it sound as if it is a linear problem associated with distance from the Earth. It isn't. It is about velocity. Or, the change in velocity (Delta V or dV). Escape velocity (~11km/s) to leave Earth's gravity. And, it isn't linear.

Getting to LEO is hard. You have to start from zero velocity and end up with dV of ~7.3km/s (drag etc. brings it up to just over 9). You have to battle the atmospheric drag which is increased as you go faster (square of velocity) but is reduced with increased altitude due to atmospheric thinning. You have to carry a shit-load of fuel and the heavy-assed rocket to use it. As you expend fuel, you loose weight. Less weight to boost to increase velocity (dV). Break the rocket into pieces to reduce weight by jettisoning parts (stages) as fuel is used. As you drop a stage, the weight loss makes the job of changing velocity easier. The optimum number of stages is beyond me but adding stages adds rocket motor weight for each stage.

By the time you reach LEO, you are mostly out of the atmosphere and you have jettisoned most of your rocket weight. Getting the rest of the dV needed is much easier and requires much less fuel.

Best general description of the rocket and the process of getting it into LEO and to the moon. "A must read!" says Hmmmm
https://www.space.com/26572-how-it-worked-the-apollo-spacecraft-infographic.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta-v#Delta-vs_around_the_Solar_System

https://www.wired.com/2015/09/whats-special-low-earth-orbit/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-lunar_injection

Lots of numbers:
http://georgetyson.com/files/apollostatistics.pdf

This isn't straight-forward shit and is why getting a physics degree is hard. Getting to the moon is beyond my mathematical skills and, apparently, way beyond yours.

This is why I refer to you as one of the tin-foil hat brigade. Well, I just started that anyway.

Okay, what you have here is nonsense. But you start it with this goofy idea that you are making a correction by explaining that there were 3 stages, not 2. Where did I say there was only 2 stages? I didn't. Knocked down your own strawman there. After the Saturn V rocket had spent it's two booster rockets, then it left only the command module, which I accounted for, I said 97% of the fuel is spent, I said the mission can not go any further out, there is no fuel for that, I never said there was no 3rd stage left at that point.

So you make the tin foil hat and then claim it for me. Political answer to a scientific question.

You pull the same stunt with escape velocity.

The fuel for the mission is spent and the command module is all of 250 miles (max) away from earth in a 17,500 mph low earth orbit. So how does the 3rd stage accelerate to 25,000 mph to escape low earth orbit? With what fuel?

You are out of fuel, as you attempt to go further out, without fuel, the earth's gravity is going to slow you down. How are you accelerating without fuel? NASA pixie dust?

tin foil hat indeed.

The tin foil hat was supposed to protect the human head from gamma rays. So does tin foil do that?

 

[Days]

It's these kinds of posts that causes people to NEVER take you seriously. Ever.

Because people are buttfvck stupid. I can afford to lose that audience, my ego will survive.

 

[Days]

So all the other spacecraft such as Voyager (and the many more) are also fake? They couldn't escape earth's gravity? How about the spacecraft that have intercepted meteors and supposedly brought back samples, are they fake? Where does the fakery end and why?

Wow, I covered it point blank, I said the probes and satellites were tiny payloads, that's how they escaped the earth's gravity. How did you read the top post and reply like that?

me: 1+1 = 2

you: so, 1 +1 doesn't equal 2?

 

[Days]

How to get past the Van Alen Belt is a huge question that NASA doesn't have an answer for. When a metal object hits the VA Belt X-rays are produced in mass, enough to fry the Astronaughts. That is listed as a major problem why we can't go back to the moon. How did it work the first time???

NASA pretended there is no radiation in space. They point blank claimed that. They denied that there were any solar storms whatsoever during the Apollo missions, they claimed they got lucky. They lied their arses off. Apollo 17 would have flown through 5 major solar flares and 4 minor solar flares. PLUS the Van Allen belts would have been buzzing with the largest solar flare of the 20th century, which took place just two weeks before the trip. The magnetosphere of the earth captures those high energy particles and a 100 megavolt ion has a lifespan of up to 10 years, so yeah, the radiation belts would have also been a problem. 500-700 REM is lethal, Apollo 17 mission would have seen approx 5000 REM, but the command module and men's suits both returned with a total dose of 2 REM.

Sky Lab missions remained in low earth orbit for much longer and returned with 3-4 REM, so 2 REM in only two weeks means that the solar storm of the century had the radiation belts buzzing. All the manned missions returned with a fraction of a REM. There was a solar flare at the exact same time Apollo 11 supposedly walked on the moon. And the moon is radio active also. Apollo 11 returned with 1/7th of a REM. The radiation doses all make perfect sense for low earth orbit. As does the rocket fuel.

Actually they do. Several years ago when I was here before, this was all discussed in detail. it is possible and has been done...

sure it was possible; all they had to do was stay in low earth orbit.

Listed by who? Or is it whom? Anyway, while a concern that must be accounted for it only seems to be impossible task for science deniers and bat-shit crazy conspiracy theorists.

Listed by NASA for the Constellation missions that were scrubbed after 5 years attempt.

Meanwhile, 40 years prior, Apollo 11 took 3 months to build and launch.

 

[resident_evil]

How did you read the top post and reply like that?

I read a bit of your post and got bored? You rocket scientists just don't know how to keep us lay men entertained.

 

[Hmmmm]

Okay, what you have here is nonsense. But you start it with this goofy idea that you are making a correction by explaining that there were 3 stages, not 2. Where did I say there was only 2 stages? I didn't. Knocked down your own strawman there. After the Saturn V rocket had spent it's two booster rockets, then it left only the command module, which I accounted for, I said 97% of the fuel is spent, I said the mission can not go any further out, there is no fuel for that, I never said there was no 3rd stage left at that point.

So you make the tin foil hat and then claim it for me. Political answer to a scientific question.

You pull the same stunt with escape velocity.

The fuel for the mission is spent and the command module is all of 250 miles (max) away from earth in a 17,500 mph low earth orbit. So how does the 3rd stage accelerate to 25,000 mph to escape low earth orbit? With what fuel?

You are out of fuel, as you attempt to go further out, without fuel, the earth's gravity is going to slow you down. How are you accelerating without fuel? NASA pixie dust?

tin foil hat indeed.

The tin foil hat was supposed to protect the human head from gamma rays. So does tin foil do that?

This is why having a discussion with you is like taking two bricks and beating your head and yet you still don't learn from the pain.

You said two stages and the command module(multiple parts here). Days says, "After the Saturn V rocket had spent it's two booster rockets, then it left only the command module". But, there are actually three stages (S-IC, S-II, S-IVB) and the command module according to my first link. I am guessing that more than 97% of the fuel remains when LEO is reached based upon 3 booster stages, not 2. The LEO distance relative to the distance to the moon is not important, velocity is. The 3rd stage (S-IVB) is not ignited until after LEO is reached. It then puts the command module and landing module into an elliptical trajectory that extends beyond the moon. That third stage is what gets it out of LEO. Once the required velocity for the elliptical orbit is achieved the S-IVB stage is shutdown and discarded. It doesn't matter how far you are from the Earth at this point, the velocity is what is important and it will carry you to the moon where you let the moon's gravity pull you into it's orbit. It is a little complex than that but that is the basic idea.

Again, nobody should trust the ramblings of some self-taught guy who uses his laymen logic to understand complex problems over that of the hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of people who have spent many years learning followed by even more years of doing.

You would really being doing yourself a big service by realizing you don't know nearly as much as you think you do. Then, go learn with an open mind and trust that the information the experts are sharing is true as compared to your laymen beliefs. Stop believing that you are educating others and educate yourself.

This type of discussion is why I stopped debating you at all. Stupidity and ideology of a conspiracy theorist versus real information and real data, yet you ignore the real world.

 

[Hmmmm]

Listed by NASA for the Constellation missions that were scrubbed after 5 years attempt.

Meanwhile, 40 years prior, Apollo 11 took 3 months to build and launch.

The reasons for the cancellation of Constellation had nothing to do with the inability to overcome the radiation "problem". It was all about money.

"Upon taking office, President Obama declared Constellation to be 'over budget, behind schedule, and lacking in innovation.' A review concluded that it would cost on the order of $150 billion for Constellation to reach its objective if adhering to the original schedule. Another review in 2009, ordered by President Obama, indicated that neither a return to the Moon nor a manned flight to Mars was within NASA's current budget."
-- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constellation_program#Budget_and_cancellation

The Apollo program took many years to design, test, then build. It was a very expensive program but we as a nation thought that getting a man to the moon was an important national goal. We are not so interested in spending the money today.

 

[Days]

I read a bit of your post and got bored? You rocket scientists just don't know how to keep us lay men entertained.

Hey sorry, RE, it was boring, I know. I don't have the time in my schedule to do justice to a top post. I can write better than that, I apologize.

 

[Days]

This is why having a discussion with you is like taking two bricks and beating your head and yet you still don't learn from the pain.

You said two stages and the command module(multiple parts here). Days says, "After the Saturn V rocket had spent it's two booster rockets, then it left only the command module". But, there are actually three stages (S-IC, S-II, S-IVB) and the command module according to my first link. I am guessing that more than 97% of the fuel remains when LEO is reached based upon 3 booster stages, not 2. The LEO distance relative to the distance to the moon is not important, velocity is. The 3rd stage (S-IVB) is not ignited until after LEO is reached. It then puts the command module and landing module into an elliptical trajectory that extends beyond the moon. That third stage is what gets it out of LEO. Once the required velocity for the elliptical orbit is achieved the S-IVB stage is shutdown and discarded. It doesn't matter how far you are from the Earth at this point, the velocity is what is important and it will carry you to the moon where you let the moon's gravity pull you into it's orbit. It is a little complex than that but that is the basic idea.

Again, nobody should trust the ramblings of some self-taught guy who uses his laymen logic to understand complex problems over that of the hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of people who have spent many years learning followed by even more years of doing.

You would really being doing yourself a big service by realizing you don't know nearly as much as you think you do. Then, go learn with an open mind and trust that the information the experts are sharing is true as compared to your laymen beliefs. Stop believing that you are educating others and educate yourself.

This type of discussion is why I stopped debating you at all. Stupidity and ideology of a conspiracy theorist versus real information and real data, yet you ignore the real world.

thanks for that. My bad, the Saturn V rocket used for Sky Lab had only 2 stages of rocket boosters, but the Saturn V rocket used for Apollo had 3 stages of rocket boosters... the top post was in error.

Thanks for all the self help advice also... should I go kill myself now?

Let me ask you, Hmmm, and first let me say, welcome back, I hope you have grown enough as a writer and matured enough as a human being to the point where you can become a blessing to the forum. So let me ask you, what does the concept of trading opinions with total strangers mean to you? What type of tolerances are involved? What are we hoping to achieve? Finally, why did you decide to return?

 

[Days]

The reasons for the cancellation of Constellation had nothing to do with the inability to overcome the radiation "problem". It was all about money.

"Upon taking office, President Obama declared Constellation to be 'over budget, behind schedule, and lacking in innovation.' A review concluded that it would cost on the order of $150 billion for Constellation to reach its objective if adhering to the original schedule. Another review in 2009, ordered by President Obama, indicated that neither a return to the Moon nor a manned flight to Mars was within NASA's current budget."
-- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constellation_program#Budget_and_cancellation

The Apollo program took many years to design, test, then build. It was a very expensive program but we as a nation thought that getting a man to the moon was an important national goal. We are not so interested in spending the money today.

you would be wrong here. Radiation shielding was a major problem and it was never solved.

 

[Hmmmm]

you would be wrong here. Radiation shielding was a major problem and it was never solved.

So you say and keep saying. Proof provided by others years ago ignored.

Again, hopefully for the last time (if I have enough willpower to just say fvck it). I am not going to trust some conspiracy theorist over actual experts and engineers who have spent years actually doing things rather than ignorantly pontificating about them on the internet.

 

[Days]

So you say and keep saying. Proof provided by others years ago ignored.

Again, hopefully for the last time (if I have enough willpower to just say fvck it). I am not going to trust some conspiracy theorist over actual experts and engineers who have spent years actually doing things rather than ignorantly pontificating about them on the internet.

thanks for your lowly opinion. I guess you are in a quandary over wanting to attack posts using that very method and wanting to escape the matrix. I hope you can overcome the dilemma and decide for yourself the path you want to trudge. This is a battle within yourself, I can see that, I am just here for you to project. That's the real battle.

I'm a real person. My name is Damian Edward Crudele. I was born in Cleveland, Ohio on Sep 10, 1959. I come from a military minded family, I have a brother that graduated the Air Force Academy with a 3.5 in his major - computer science - and i have a father who served long years in the Air Force and Army. My father was a Drill Team Commander. My family was a little involved in engineering, after 55 years and two generations in the custom window washing equipment industry; six corporations, 3 of them global (5 continents) where we employed a master civil engineer, two civil egineers for proposals, and 3 mechanical engineers to build the equipment... I was the top field service technician on the planet and recognized as such; at the age of 19 I was first to get equipment working at Renaissance Center in Detroit, at the age of 23 I ran the largest construction installation in the world at Lincoln National Bank in Rochester,NY; 12 roof trucks, 12 roof rigs, 12 stages, 60 hoists in operation, some nine miles of wire rope... after supervising installation I stayed on and trouble shot the entire site by myself. My best friend at Indiana University was Jeff Carr; he was there on a track scholarship, I was there on a wrestling scholarship; I left college and moved in with Jeff and his twin sister in Austin, Tx. Jeff's dad; Gerald P Carr, commander SkyLab 4, set the record for longest trek in space, it has since been broken, obviously. Gerry was my landlord. When I volunteered Navy for Desert Storm, I broke 3 of the 10 tests for application, I stunned the speed math also, even though I only had two hours sleep... a decade and a half earlier I scored in the 99.5 percentile in the math and sciences on the SAT, again with little sleep and a bunch of beer still in my system from the Tiger game I went to the night before. (Mark - the bird - Fidrych was pitcher.)

So I am a real human being, I am 58 years old, I've been a born again Christian minister for 35 years and touched thousands of lives... in the real world. In the real world, my son is an industrial engineering major at UIC college of Engineering. My wife has a double major in teaching and a minor in child psychology, it is not a stupid homelife, our place is filled with books and videos and DVDs and we frequent the library extensively. My two best friends here are an Indian with a masters in mechanical engineering and a yahoo from Florida and North Carolina who was a system engineer running the computer system for Cook county for 15 years... he helped us with my little network of 4 computers and 2 peer to peer printers, which my son uses to upload his homework over the internet every night. My son is a sophomore, his class load is; Statics, C++ programming for engineers, Physics 2 magnetism, and Calculus 3. Besides his classes he was elected an officer for both Engineering societies he joined; Society of Industrial Engineers ISE and SHPE Society of Hispanic Professional Engineers. He does PR for SHPE, I have to help with the letter writing, a constant chore.

I don't have time for this forum, I stick my nose in when I can, but that's it. You guys get what you get from me, it doesn't even make my to-do list.

I studied Apollo. I caught the spot in the journals where an engineer from solar studies at NASA wrote the PR engineer who lied about the solar storms to the general pubic. In the journals, the lying PR engineer came clean and listed the electrical strength of each storm that happened in all the Apollo missions for the solar studies engineers. I posted that. and it couldn't be copied/pasted, I had to retype the information. I've already proven the hoax a 100 different ways... okay 99 different ways, cuz I was wrong about the rocket boosters, but the big difference between you and me is exactly that; I post the honest truth as i see it, I don't have a politicial agenda, and I admit when I am wrong.

so what are you doing for us? Another political hack pushing the Dem talking points? If that's all you are bringing, you might as well have stayed away.

 

[Hmmmm]

so what are you doing for us? Another political hack pushing the Dem talking points? If that's all you are bringing, you might as well have stayed away.

Wow! So little of what you posted is relevant.

What dem talking point have a discussed in this thread? None. I posted links to science/engineering material.

You are a conspiracy theorist who would rather believe the <<1% rather than the >>99% almost every time. One scientist/engineer/admin guy who tells the "truth" against the "lies" is highly suspect. That you would rather believe them than the consensus among experts, is on you. If you really studied physics or any science and believed in it, you would be far less trusting of random internet wierdos.

The fact that many who are anti-science and anti-truth/pro-conspiracy push untruths so vigorously and so completely makes them dangerous. It adds to the dumbing down of this country.

I am absolutely done with you. Anti-science, anti-truth people aren't even close to being worthy of even engaging. It is like talking with Ken Ham, pointless and dangerous.

 

[Days]

Wow! So little of what you posted is relevant.

What dem talking point have a discussed in this thread? None. I posted links to science/engineering material.

You are a conspiracy theorist who would rather believe the <<1% rather than the >>99% almost every time. One scientist/engineer/admin guy who tells the "truth" against the "lies" is highly suspect. That you would rather believe them than the consensus among experts, is on you. If you really studied physics or any science and believed in it, you would be far less trusting of random internet wierdos.

The fact that many who are anti-science and anti-truth/pro-conspiracy push untruths so vigorously and so completely makes them dangerous. It adds to the dumbing down of this country.

I am absolutely done with you. Anti-science, anti-truth people aren't even close to being worthy of even engaging. It is like talking with Ken Ham, pointless and dangerous.

That's a nice political theory of science you obviously don't understand. I loved the way you said escape velocity has nothing to do with the gravity of the earth... what exactly did you think the escape velocity was escaping?

I posted a single idea about rocket fuel, it isn't a conspiracy theory, neither did it come from some conspiracy theory, it was just something off the top of my head. But in place of any actual understanding of rocket fuel, you post your own conspiracy theories, and you refuse to acknowledge who I am in real life, because it wrecks your label "random internet wierdo" ... which tells me you are a kid, and hiding behind internet anonymity, so you can toss out your juvenile attacks at posters in place of actual scientific argument.

So you got nothing. probably another knee jerk kid getting his kicks with politics.

carry on