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A Moment of Candor

Curious. Do we have the capacity for transparency any longer?

Is it possible to set aside the loathing of Trump for a moment and assess the people running?

I’m not asking which you hate least/triangulate toward...I’m asking if you enthusiastically embrace any of them. Please refrain from the “ABT” - I already get that. I’m asking YOU if you are pleased with who we have to choose from.

Are you?

I’ll answer first. I’m not.

Ours is an exceptional nation of 330 million...it’s hard to believe that we can do no better than Trump and the Democrat field. That is my view.

Any thoughts on the field?
I concur and think that we can do much better also.

None of the current favorites in either party seem to be great leaders to me at this point. However, when Lincoln ran in 1860 many people considered him a rube and a fool too. He and his team literally stole the nomination from Seward and the country was deeply divided With a lot of bad blood between the two main factions of the day. However now he is considered one of the best Presidents in US History. Teddy Roosevelt was the Governor of New York when he was chosen as Vice President mainly because he was pissing rich and important people in New York off and they wanted him out and urged the party leaders to exile him into the VP slot to get him out of their away from power. Then McKinley got whacked and Teddy became President for 8 years. He is also recognized by many as a great President and a progressive innovator who helped break up monopolies and help the fledgling US Labor movement.

That past history gives me an optimistic view regarding any of those who are now running, even Trump. People in America have often risen to the occasion and performed brilliantly at key junctions in our history and there is no reason to doubt that some of those running now could. If Trump would get his head out of his ass instead of, as you said “trolling“ those who disagree with him he could grow into the job and become an effective leader to all of us instead of being a smart ass mean little troll. Sanders, Buttigeig, Warren, Bloomberg, Biden or Klobuchar could also become great agents for change and advancement.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
Current state... Buttegeig is my favorite.
just watched CNN townhall with Biden. Two things..Biden sucks at debates and can't do 90 second answers.

But when he answers question in this format and without a clock in his face...he is sincere, heart felt, on top of his facts....he regained my support tonight and will win the election...it ain't about bumper stickers.
 
So did you find Ronald Reagan to be exceptional at the time? Now? Ever?
Personally, being a Californian at first I found Reagan to be a self righteous prick. When he was governor I recall Reagan sitting with a bunch of greasy haired guys eating grapes on camera and suggesting that Ceasar Chavez was immoral because he was working hard to get humane treatment and fair wages for the farm workers in California. He and those who were supporting him were pretty disgusting and smug.

However after he became President of the US he had matured and realized that he was supposed to represent ALL Americans, not just the people who paid big money to get him elected. Even though I did not agree with many of his policies I did come to believe that his heart was in the right place and he sincerely tried to be a unifier.

He worked and compromised with Tip O’Neil who was a very liberal man and speaker of the house when theDemcrats had a super majority in the house and a majority in the Senate. Reagan and O’Neill came to respect each other and actually were friends.

After Reagan left office someone wrote a book which was comprised of letters he had written and received over the years in his own handwriting. What I learned about Ronnie is that he was a really good and very nice person who really loved our country. He also loved his wife unconditionally. He was a great and uplifting speaker and I consider him a great President who restored honor and integrity to the White House after Nixon stunk the place up a bit. We need another guy like him, not necessarily with his political views but with his integrity.
 

afella

Mayor
Curious. Do we have the capacity for transparency any longer?

Is it possible to set aside the loathing of Trump for a moment and assess the people running?

I’m not asking which you hate least/triangulate toward...I’m asking if you enthusiastically embrace any of them. Please refrain from the “ABT” - I already get that. I’m asking YOU if you are pleased with who we have to choose from.

Are you?

I’ll answer first. I’m not.

Ours is an exceptional nation of 330 million...it’s hard to believe that we can do no better than Trump and the Democrat field. That is my view.

Any thoughts on the field?
Jacob hornberger. This is the most excited I've been about a candidate since Obama 08. Not a realistic option for president, given the duopoly's stranglehold on our electoral system, but realistic enough to possibly get a third party involved in the process.
 
If you're so indifferent to whether we have a president who's fit to serve or a mentally unstable incompetent, why are you even here on a political board?
I don't know about him but I missed the requirement, although admittedly I didn't bother with the fine print. Do you expect the system to offer up a choice worth attention this go 'round? The theatrics are a bit substandard at present. As an agnostic I'm unmoved. Who would you suggest I take up the banner of and why?
 
Curious. Do we have the capacity for transparency any longer?

Is it possible to set aside the loathing of Trump for a moment and assess the people running?

I’m not asking which you hate least/triangulate toward...I’m asking if you enthusiastically embrace any of them. Please refrain from the “ABT” - I already get that. I’m asking YOU if you are pleased with who we have to choose from.

Are you?

I’ll answer first. I’m not.

Ours is an exceptional nation of 330 million...it’s hard to believe that we can do no better than Trump and the Democrat field. That is my view.

Any thoughts on the field?

Is it possible to set aside the loathing of Trump for a moment and assess the people running?


The loathing is of each other. It is a collective societal self loathing. Grifters rely and prey upon it.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
Personally, being a Californian at first I found Reagan to be a self righteous prick. When he was governor I recall Reagan sitting with a bunch of greasy haired guys eating grapes on camera and suggesting that Ceasar Chavez was immoral because he was working hard to get humane treatment and fair wages for the farm workers in California. He and those who were supporting him were pretty disgusting and smug.

However after he became President of the US he had matured and realized that he was supposed to represent ALL Americans, not just the people who paid big money to get him elected. Even though I did not agree with many of his policies I did come to believe that his heart was in the right place and he sincerely tried to be a unifier.

He worked and compromised with Tip O’Neil who was a very liberal man and speaker of the house when theDemcrats had a super majority in the house and a majority in the Senate. Reagan and O’Neill came to respect each other and actually were friends.

After Reagan left office someone wrote a book which was comprised of letters he had written and received over the years in his own handwriting. What I learned about Ronnie is that he was a really good and very nice person who really loved our country. He also loved his wife unconditionally. He was a great and uplifting speaker and I consider him a great President who restored honor and integrity to the White House after Nixon stunk the place up a bit. We need another guy like him, not necessarily with his political views but with his integrity.
I liked him up until I found he was supporting right wing regimes in latin and south america, made a deal with Iran to hold on to the hostages until after the election and then secretly sold them weapons, using the money to support terrorists in Nicaragua.

I didn't vote at all in 1984.
 

PhilFish

Administrator
Staff member
just watched CNN townhall with Biden. Two things..Biden sucks at debates and can't do 90 second answers.

But when he answers question in this format and without a clock in his face...he is sincere, heart felt, on top of his facts....he regained my support tonight and will win the election...it ain't about bumper stickers.
Mm. I think he struggles. But is a decent dude. I could see it.
 

JackDallas

Senator
Supporting Member
Curious. Do we have the capacity for transparency any longer?

Is it possible to set aside the loathing of Trump for a moment and assess the people running?

I’m not asking which you hate least/triangulate toward...I’m asking if you enthusiastically embrace any of them. Please refrain from the “ABT” - I already get that. I’m asking YOU if you are pleased with who we have to choose from.

Are you?

I’ll answer first. I’m not.

Ours is an exceptional nation of 330 million...it’s hard to believe that we can do no better than Trump and the Democrat field. That is my view.

Any thoughts on the field?
My only thoughts on the Democrat field are that any 10 random names in any phone book would be better choices than the current crop of morons.
 

JackDallas

Senator
Supporting Member
Personally, being a Californian at first I found Reagan to be a self righteous prick. When he was governor I recall Reagan sitting with a bunch of greasy haired guys eating grapes on camera and suggesting that Ceasar Chavez was immoral because he was working hard to get humane treatment and fair wages for the farm workers in California. He and those who were supporting him were pretty disgusting and smug.

However after he became President of the US he had matured and realized that he was supposed to represent ALL Americans, not just the people who paid big money to get him elected. Even though I did not agree with many of his policies I did come to believe that his heart was in the right place and he sincerely tried to be a unifier.

He worked and compromised with Tip O’Neil who was a very liberal man and speaker of the house when theDemcrats had a super majority in the house and a majority in the Senate. Reagan and O’Neill came to respect each other and actually were friends.

After Reagan left office someone wrote a book which was comprised of letters he had written and received over the years in his own handwriting. What I learned about Ronnie is that he was a really good and very nice person who really loved our country. He also loved his wife unconditionally. He was a great and uplifting speaker and I consider him a great President who restored honor and integrity to the White House after Nixon stunk the place up a bit. We need another guy like him, not necessarily with his political views but with his integrity.
I never shared the god-like adoration for Reagan that most of my fellow Conservative had. I had great respect for him during his first term (mainly because I disliked Carter so much) but I soured on him during the Iran/Contra thing. He was practically senile in his second term and his wife always seemed to me to be putting words in his mouth for him.
Reagan's promise to reduce the size of government never came to be. He cut spending but he shifted the funds to the defense budget so his campaign promise turned out to be bullshit, All in all, I don't believe he was the great president the Right makes him out to be. His trickle-down economic theory was flawed because that was all it did...trickle down.
 

JuliefromOhio

Senator
Supporting Member
I don't know about him but I missed the requirement, although admittedly I didn't bother with the fine print. Do you expect the system to offer up a choice worth attention this go 'round? The theatrics are a bit substandard at present. As an agnostic I'm unmoved. Who would you suggest I take up the banner of and why?
Perhaps you and the other guy are Russian bots spreading dissension and indifference to undermine our democracy, the need for all of us to do our duty as citizens and vote.
 

PhilFish

Administrator
Staff member
I met him once. Sat in a room with about 30 veterans and heard him talk about the war in Iraq. His command of details and strategy was amazing...but he struggled with his stutter even then. 2004.
cool. like i said before, he's a decent dude. still gotta be taken for a ride when he says 150 million gun deaths,etc..
 

voyager

bon vivant
If you're so indifferent to whether we have a president who's fit to serve or a mentally unstable incompetent, why are you even here on a political board?
I am against the way this country is being ravaged by the very same people that always want to change it but never do. I vote third party and Never the two major parties.
 

RickWA

Senator
Jacob hornberger. This is the most excited I've been about a candidate since Obama 08. Not a realistic option for president, given the duopoly's stranglehold on our electoral system, but realistic enough to possibly get a third party involved in the process.
I am certainly leaning toward him as well (unsurprising, I guess, because I usually vote Libertarian).
 
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