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all about Obama sanctioning Russia

voyager

4Q2247365
That was the catalyst for the Flynn lie. If there was "Nothing to see here"... why did he lie. Flynn said after trump became President ... they would smooth things out.



No reason for Pootin to help trump that I can see... lol

flynn.jpg
 

Raoul_Luke

I feel a bit lightheaded. Maybe you should drive.
Yeah, what was Obama doing hamstringing the incoming Trump Administration by imposing sanctions on Russia as they headed out the door? Any decent POTUS would have granted the new guy the courtesy of putting his policy in place rather that being handcuffed to a last minute effort by outgoing people. Of course, Obama did it to provide additional cover for the crossfire hurricane coup attempt. It was wholly appropriate for Trump to set out to undo that damage asap.

As for the Flynn "lie" they really did not discuss the actual sanctions, but rather the dynamic surrounding them - i.e. requesting that they only reciprocate and not escalate in their response. You have to use a real heavy dose of "prosecutorial overreach" to suggest that they actually "discussed the sanctions." Name the specific sanctions that are mentioned on the transcript. There are none! Only a dishonest hack would suggest that absent any actual mention of even one actual sanction would constitute "discussing" the "sanctions."

Which, of course, is why the DOJ is dropping the charges. It really reflects poorly on the Mueller people and Van Grack that they pressed those bogus charges in the first place.
 

voyager

4Q2247365
Yeah, what was Obama doing hamstringing the incoming Trump Administration by imposing sanctions on Russia as they headed out the door? Any decent POTUS would have granted the new guy the courtesy of putting his policy in place rather that being handcuffed to a last minute effort by outgoing people. Of course, Obama did it to provide additional cover for the crossfire hurricane coup attempt. It was wholly appropriate for Trump to set out to undo that damage asap.

As for the Flynn "lie" they really did not discuss the actual sanctions, but rather the dynamic surrounding them - i.e. requesting that they only reciprocate and not escalate in their response. You have to use a real heavy dose of "prosecutorial overreach" to suggest that they actually "discussed the sanctions." Name the specific sanctions that are mentioned on the transcript. There are none! Only a dishonest hack would suggest that absent any actual mention of even one actual sanction would constitute "discussing" the "sanctions."

Which, of course, is why the DOJ is dropping the charges. It really reflects poorly on the Mueller people and Van Grack that they pressed those bogus charges in the first place.
You forgot to mention Obama warned trump about Flynn, that Flynn lied twice to the FBI, plead guilty to lying and lied to the VP and was fired by trump.

I think he's a damn liar. Once a liar always a liar.
 

Raoul_Luke

I feel a bit lightheaded. Maybe you should drive.
You forgot to mention Obama warned trump about Flynn, that Flynn lied twice to the FBI, plead guilty to lying and lied to the VP and was fired by trump.

I think he's a damn liar. Once a liar always a liar.
Yes, because the last thing he wanted was Flynn looking into what he and his henchmen in the intel agencies and the DOJ had been up to.

The FBI agents who interviewed him initially said they thought he hadn't "lied" to them. He was a bit circumspect, but the National Security Adviser is not typically required to tell mid-level bureaucrats what he talked to the Ambassador of Russia about. Mueller, taking his typical overly authoritarian view of the matter, decided to charge him with a "lie" that really wasn't. Flynn said he didn't talk about the sanctions, and he didn't. If you think he did, the transcripts are out - go find me which specific sanctions are listed in there. I'll save you the trouble - there are exactly none. Mueller did what he usually does - he saw a crime where one didn't exist by taking the broadest possible interpretation of what "talking about the sanctions" means. In Flynn's (correct) view, he was asked if they discussed the sanctions and they in fact did not get into any of that, but rather merely talked about Russia's potential reactions to them. Mueller (wrongly) interpreted that as having "discussed the sanctions" when, in fact, none of the actual sanctions were even mentioned. Any reasonable person would accept that as a reasonable person's reasonable interpretation of what he was being asked, but Mueller is not in the least, a reasonable man.

He didn't lie to the VP. He had discussed with the White House what to talk with Kislyak about before ever talking to him. That's what three star generals do. But the Russian collusion delusion was out of control by then and the White House was trying to tamp it down so they could get on with their work. So they decided that Flynn should fall on his sword, and take the rap for jumping the gun on discussing foreign policy with Kislyak in an effort t take the "Russian collusion" heat off of Trump; and so he did, because that, too, is what three star generals do.
 

JuliefromOhio

President
Supporting Member
Flynn lied because the truth was incriminating.....for him and whoever ordered him to tell the Russians to ignore Obama's sanctions of them for meddling in the 2016 election to help Trump and hurt Hillary. Who made the order, Trump?
 

voyager

4Q2247365
Yes, because the last thing he wanted was Flynn looking into what he and his henchmen in the intel agencies and the DOJ had been up to.

The FBI agents who interviewed him initially said they thought he hadn't "lied" to them. He was a bit circumspect, but the National Security Adviser is not typically required to tell mid-level bureaucrats what he talked to the Ambassador of Russia about. Mueller, taking his typical overly authoritarian view of the matter, decided to charge him with a "lie" that really wasn't. Flynn said he didn't talk about the sanctions, and he didn't. If you think he did, the transcripts are out - go find me which specific sanctions are listed in there. I'll save you the trouble - there are exactly none. Mueller did what he usually does - he saw a crime where one didn't exist by taking the broadest possible interpretation of what "talking about the sanctions" means. In Flynn's (correct) view, he was asked if they discussed the sanctions and they in fact did not get into any of that, but rather merely talked about Russia's potential reactions to them. Mueller (wrongly) interpreted that as having "discussed the sanctions" when, in fact, none of the actual sanctions were even mentioned. Any reasonable person would accept that as a reasonable person's reasonable interpretation of what he was being asked, but Mueller is not in the least, a reasonable man.

He didn't lie to the VP. He had discussed with the White House what to talk with Kislyak about before ever talking to him. That's what three star generals do. But the Russian collusion delusion was out of control by then and the White House was trying to tamp it down so they could get on with their work. So they decided that Flynn should fall on his sword, and take the rap for jumping the gun on discussing foreign policy with Kislyak in an effort t take the "Russian collusion" heat off of Trump; and so he did, because that, too, is what three star generals do.
It's such a lovely story...
 

Mick

The Right is always right
Flynn lied because the truth was incriminating.....for him and whoever ordered him to tell the Russians to ignore Obama's sanctions of them for meddling in the 2016 election to help Trump and hurt Hillary. Who made the order, Trump?
Who cares? He was perfectly within his rights to do so.
 

JuliefromOhio

President
Supporting Member
Who cares? He was perfectly within his rights to do so.
President-elects know to not interfere in foreign policy during the transition. Flynn knew it was wrong.....which is why he lied to the FBI and even to Pence.
Who's violated those norms? Nixon and Trump, one who resigned, one who was impeached. Republicans.
 

Raoul_Luke

I feel a bit lightheaded. Maybe you should drive.
President-elects know to not interfere in foreign policy during the transition. Flynn knew it was wrong.....which is why he lied to the FBI and even to Pence.
Who's violated those norms? Nixon and Trump, one who resigned, one who was impeached. Republicans.
Name one other President who slapped sanctions on a nuclear super power on his way out the door.
 

Mick

The Right is always right
President-elects know to not interfere in foreign policy during the transition. Flynn knew it was wrong.....which is why he lied to the FBI and even to Pence.
Who's violated those norms? Nixon and Trump, one who resigned, one who was impeached. Republicans.
He was speaking on behalf his boss, President-elect Trump, giving Russia information on the new administration's policies coming in. That is exactly what the transition is for. Perfectly legal and fine. Not agreeing with the new policy doesn't make it a crime. Trying to criminalize it, however, makes you the actual criminal.

Facts matter.
 
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