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As requested from LOC....Getting more visibility for PJ

NightSwimmer

Senator
Okay... A topic.

How about a "person on the street" view of Mitt Romney's overseas visit from an actual inhabitant of jolly old England? Care to tackle that one?

If so, it probably shouldn't be done within this thread. It would be off-topic. ;)
 
LOL I think that is being done and done and done again above :)

If you mean from people from here ... off topic ...I don't think most people say anything about Mr R ....they just give a 'look'.

If you mean diplomatic faux pas .............. History is full of them :) This one wasn't serious ( The Obamas were far worse !) and but we know that all visiting US Politicians are playing to a home audience never to us ;-)

off topic that is xxxx Actually a discussion on diplomacy and protocol would be interesting eh ? We would all have to do a bit of reading up on first I think .............
 
They do. But less so than overt racism. A brand that associates itself with racism or homophobia gets damaged in the marketplace
http://bottomline.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/07/27/12971573-chick-fil-a-out-of-the-fryer-into-the-fire?lite

Again political opinions, well formed, attract advertisers. See HuffPo and Redstate. But ones that have racist and homophobic content do not
Oh, I don't know about that. I expect an outfit like Chic-fil-a wouldn't have a problem advertising in a place that has some homophobic content... as long as the homophobic content is respectful and fit for family entertainment purposes.
 
Sure I can volunteer some time. Happy to work with Dave on it
Without disrupting the PJ format, wouldn't the easiest thing to do be to set up a forum titled "Today's Articles" (or something to that effect) and just let that forum stand, as is, in chronological order, without anyone being able to make responses directly to the articles themselves, then just have a forum directly below it called "DiscussToday's Articles", where people can join in the converstion in response to the articles posted.

If it is the top forum in the list, people can come and read even if they don't want to participate in any discussion and the articles are there, in order of when they are posted, without any extraneous bullshit to sidetrack anyone from them. Unless, of course, they wish to be sidetracked, a link could be provided to the discussion forum.

It seems to me we don't have to reinvent the wheel here, all it requires is priority placement of the articles forum and no chance for messing up the articles room.
 
Okay... A topic.

How about a "person on the street" view of Mitt Romney's overseas visit from an actual inhabitant of jolly old England? Care to tackle that one?

If so, it probably shouldn't be done within this thread. It would be off-topic. ;)
LOL I just asked my sister ......you don't want to hear what she said !!!!!! lots of [Unwelcome language removed] stupid ignorant rudes and etcs .................... I supose 'cos we probably all dislike him so much anyway
I haven't really taken it seriously .........:)

I dunno what he is doing here ?????? Haven't we got enough troubles at the mo ?
 

NightSwimmer

Senator
Without disrupting the PJ format, wouldn't the easiest thing to do be to set up a forum titled "Today's Articles" (or something to that effect) and just let that forum stand, as is, in chronological order, without anyone being able to make responses directly to the articles themselves, then just have a forum directly below it called "DiscussToday's Articles", where people can join in the converstion in response to the articles posted.

If it is the top forum in the list, people can come and read even if they don't want to participate in any discussion and the articles are there, in order of when they are posted, without any extraneous bullshit to sidetrack anyone from them. Unless, of course, they wish to be sidetracked, a link could be provided to the discussion forum.

It seems to me we don't have to reinvent the wheel here, all it requires is priority placement of the articles forum and no chance for messing up the articles room.

I don't understand the perceived benefit of having a separate forum for discussing any "articles" that would be posted in an "Articles" forum. Why should user commentary placed directly underneath an article distract from reading the article itself? If you don't want to read the comments, then simply don't read them. Read the article, close it, and then proceed to reading the next article if that's what you want to do. Having a disconnected, separate forum for commentary just seems kludgy and counterintuitive to me.
 
I don't understand the perceived benefit of having a separate forum for discussing any "articles" that would be posted in an "Articles" forum. Why should user commentary placed directly underneath an article distract from reading the article itself? If you don't want to read the comments, then simply don't read them. Read the article, close it, and then proceed to reading the next article if that's what you want to do. Having a disconnected, separate forum for commentary just seems kludgy and counterintuitive to me.
The advantage of having a separate "articles" forum would be so that the articles maintain priority as a place for visitors to begin browsing. As I said, then people coming to look in can take a look at the articles, in order of their posting (which makes it easier to see them ALL and see what's NEW), and will not have the chance of missing any of them due to the fact that posts change position when people respond to them.

I can't even count the number of times I've had a quick glance at a top post and wanted to come back and read it again and maybe made a comment, but, it has been so quickly moved 2, 3 or 4 pages back due to whatever stupid "bitch fest du jour" is taking place amongst the mentally ill here...it's hardly worth going to look for it...especially knowing that once you make your comment, it will again be immediately pushed back to the 2, 3 or 4th page back and it will be days, if ever, before someone sees your comment.

Just saying, if the place is going to become a showcase for talented writers posting interesting articles, then the articles should be the thing that stands out from the crowd - not the mindless babbling that often ensues to the detriment of newer or older articles.

I don't see that having a different forum for discussing articles would be particularly cumbersome. That's pretty much the way it was done on Slate - the article is on a page of it's own and to comment on it or discuss it, you clicked a link which took you to the appropriate discussion forum. I didn't find anything counterintuitive about it.

It's just a matter of neatness and easy accessibility to the showcased items, if, indeed, the articles are to be the showcased items.
 

NightSwimmer

Senator
Oh... Now I understand. That issue could be easily remedied by setting up the new forum to display posts (articles) only in chronological order.

At any rate, since the general public would have no ability to top-post, actual page-pushing could not really occur as it does on the existing fora. The worst case scenario would be a slight shifting of order of the limited number of posts that would be allowed in the new forum, even if the posts were still sorted by "most recent reply".


The advantage of having a separate "articles" forum would be so that the articles maintain priority as a place for visitors to begin browsing. As I said, then people coming to look in can take a look at the articles, in order of their posting (which makes it easier to see them ALL and see what's NEW), and will not have the chance of missing any of them due to the fact that posts change position when people respond to them.

I can't even count the number of times I've had a quick glance at a top post and wanted to come back and read it again and maybe made a comment, but, it has been so quickly moved 2, 3 or 4 pages back due to whatever stupid "bitch fest du jour" is taking place amongst the mentally ill here...it's hardly worth going to look for it...especially knowing that once you make your comment, it will again be immediately pushed back to the 2, 3 or 4th page back and it will be days, if ever, before someone sees your comment.

Just saying, if the place is going to become a showcase for talented writers posting interesting articles, then the articles should be the thing that stands out from the crowd - not the mindless babbling that often ensues to the detriment of newer or older articles.

I don't see that having a different forum for discussing articles would be particularly cumbersome. That's pretty much the way it was done on Slate - the article is on a page of it's own and to comment on it or discuss it, you clicked a link which took you to the appropriate discussion forum. I didn't find anything counterintuitive about it.

It's just a matter of neatness and easy accessibility to the showcased items, if, indeed, the articles are to be the showcased items.
 

NightSwimmer

Senator
I don't see that having a different forum for discussing articles would be particularly cumbersome. That's pretty much the way it was done on Slate - the article is on a page of it's own and to comment on it or discuss it, you clicked a link which took you to the appropriate discussion forum. I didn't find anything counterintuitive about it.
The difference is that Slate was never a forum web-site, but a news magazine. Slate's forum was a separate entity from their main website. That's why you had to "click into it" after reading an article. If you went to the main Fray website, rather than the front page of the magazine, then the format was not really so dissimilar from what you find here at PJ. I don't see PJ becoming an actual news magazine, as opposed to a forum website. That would be an undertaking that greatly exceeds the scope of what we are discussing here.
 
It comes from up North .....it means, idiot ... a daft person mmmm it isn't a huge insult and can be said indearingly .... Why ? was it used about Romney ? If so it meant idiot in that he made a fool of himself
 
The difference is that Slate was never a forum web-site, but a news magazine. Slate's forum was a separate entity from their main website. That's why you had to "click into it" after reading an article. If you went to the main Fray website, rather than the front page of the magazine, then the format was not really so dissimilar from what you find here at PJ. I don't see PJ becoming an actual news magazine, as opposed to a forum website. That would be an undertaking that greatly exceeds the scope of what we are discussing here.
No, I doubt it will become a news magazine either, but the articles forum would still be something slightly different from the regular chatting that goes back and forth in so far as it will have actual articles submitted for discussion.

It just seems to me that people who may be interested in reading the articles may often not want to be bothered with the rest of the hassle of this place, not the least of which is actually loading the damned page. Now, if you have an article that is of some interest and a lot of people respond to it, it becomes problematic. I routinely have trouble loading threads that have 200, 300, 500, 700 responses. So, here you are, you come to read the interesting articles, but because all the responses are attached to it, it's so big that you can't load it in a reasonable amount of time, so you go find somewhere else a little more accomodating to surf.

As for the "limited" number of articles getting posted...who knows? What happens when we get 20 decent writers all submitting an article once a week? That's a lot of stuff to wade through...if each one has 200 responses attached to it, that's more stuff than I'll be able to deal with effectively.

I still think your best bet in attracting readers to the articles is to have them in a place of their own, easily accesible, locked in chronological order without the drag of the responses attached directly to them.
 

NightSwimmer

Senator
Are you on dial-up? I've browsed PJ on a 12 year old laptop running Win2K with no problems. I don't like the "threaded view" mode of display, because it requires a page reload every time I clink a different comment. I don't have that problem when displaying a thread in "linear mode".
 
Are you on dial-up? I've browsed PJ on a 12 year old laptop running Win2K with no problems. I don't like the "threaded view" mode of display, because it requires a page reload every time I clink a different comment. I don't have that problem when displaying a thread in "linear mode".
No. At work I'm on some sort of cobbled together thing running XP on a T1 line and I can't hardly get anywhere a lot of the time because it just locks up. At home I'm on cable with all the latest and greatest, but I still have some trouble with threads that have a lot of responses. I like Hybrid Mode.

Personally, I've never had as many problems on any website as I have on this one. (In all honesty, though, I don't go to questionable websites (e.g. porn), so my experience with problematic websites is limited.)
 

Havelock

Mayor
I am on many other boards and other than blogs by famous people, this blog holds some of the finest posters around. I think the key to getting more traffic on this site is content. I have often thought of starting a blog and just inviting a few of the left and right posters here that post quality pieces to participate by having a debate over certain topics. I think Dave should consider having some of us become writers for his site and rather than have the pieces be part of a long list of threads, make them articles and start getting this site linked into the more famous sites like DK, Digby, Daily Caller, Daily Beast and so on. I can tell you that while most of the stuff written here is pure drivel, an awful lot of it is superb and should be shared with a larger audience.

When Slate was created, it was a forum for outstanding writers to publish pieces that attracted high caliber readers. This led to The Fray being created to give the readers a chance to debate or explain the articles. It led to the creation of many different forums and attracted some of the best minds in the world to comment upon them. While it did descend into chaos at the end, the effect of having articles published gave it much needed exposure. I think it is an idea worth considering. Links to this site from other left and right sites could expand this board beyond the current group. It's just an idea but it could work if the moderators kept the riff raff at bay.
First off, I'm very much in favor of just about anything that can help raise the signal to noise ratio – here and elsewhere. I also think it makes sense, in general, to highlight, showcase, and help propagate posts that are particularly interesting, insightful, profound, and/or simply well-written and entertaining. So the question is, how best to do that? In principle having “articles” posted here is one good way to help accomplish that goal. I like it.

That said, I'll echo and perhaps amplify what some other folks have already said. Along with NightSwimmer, I see two ways to go with this:

One: a panel of select “article writers” could be established and given a forum (or more than one, if the goal was to separate articles according to topic) in which only they have the ability to top post. The chief advantage to this scheme is that relatively little editorial input is required in the selection of articles. It's probably also somewhat easier to maintain a particular focus among the various articles with this setup. The chief disadvantage is that right from the get-go an elite has been established. How will they be selected? By whom? When and how will new members be added or old members dropped?

However it's done, this scheme is almost certain to alienate a few people and, to the degree it draws new people in, it's likely to draw more readers than long-term contributors. It's “news magazine lite”, for better and for worse. Will the “article board” become a slowly (or not-so-slowly) fossilizing gilded ghetto? That is what happened to the “premium boards” set up on the old-site-that-must-not-be-named, after all. Not saying that's bound to happen; I'm just saying it's a danger...

Two: An editor or editorial panel could select articles to be posted in a special forum or forums. This could be handled either by having members submit articles to the editor(s) for consideration – such submissions could be open or by request – or by having the editor(s) select articles from among the top posts normally posted in PJ's various regular forums.

The main disadvantage to this scheme is that it would require a relatively large amount of editorial effort. Who's going to be willing to put in the time to do that on a volunteer basis? If the editorial panel is a group of more-or-less self-selected regular posters, it'll be difficult to avoid perceptions of favoritism and hurt feelings. We've certainly seen our share of that with the poster-moderator setup we have now. It'll be doubly difficult to avoid those conflicts if authors are required to submit potential articles specifically for review and consideration.

The main advantage to this scheme is that anyone can author an article – there's no selected “gold star” club and, assuming submissions are not by invitation only, even a random visitor could potentially contribute a “front page” article. That's bound to be more attractive to potential new members than a closed stable of regular authors, I would think.

In case it's not already obvious, I favor option two structured in this way: Put together an editor or editorial panel that chooses top-notch top posts and moves them to one or more “article boards” where they're highlighted and remain indefinitely. Allow anyone to comment on any article, of course, but structure the forum(s) such that articles are not re-arranged based on when the latest comment is posted. Maybe that requires moving comments to a separate forum/thread, I don't know.

If the editor(s) want to invite specific posters to author a post on this or that specific topic, that could still happen with this system. Similarly, if the editor(s) want to select a series of “back and forth” posts between two or among several posters and turn that into an “article”, that could be done as well. Lots of options...

Those of you with good memories may recall that I suggested something similar at the old place during that long period of time when there was much official hand wringing and gnashing of teeth (at least for show) about the value and fate of the old discussion boards. Much good that did, but I still agree with Woolley that there ought to be some way to capitalize on the resource that we as a group of posters represent.

Now, the above recommendation assumes that it is in fact realistically possible to assemble a functional, active editorial panel. If that turns out not to be the case, then I think option one is actually the better choice, despite it's potential drawbacks. Trying to implement option two with a dysfunctional or minimally-active editorial group would be the kiss of death, I reckon.

My two cents...

Cheers!
 

Minotaur

Governor
2 cents worth a million! All excellent points. Thanks much. No doubt Dave will find this post. Good breakdown and much needed. Thanks.

We do have an ability to have the first panel be centered around these things even as it moves toward the final editorial group if this is all set. We even have a proofreader who loves proofreading. That alone is a miracle. ;)

Lots of gems here to savor but I think rather than pick your brain right now I have a better idea - I'll just PM you. Thanks so much!
 
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