Brexit update.

[Queen Titania]

What's the possibility of a Second Referendum?

https://www.ecfr.eu/article/commentary_a_hard_brexit_looms

"On Saturday afternoon, as the news emerged of Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s failure to railroad his new Brexit deal through the House of Commons sight unseen, a huge cheer went up from the crowds thronging Parliament Square.

"One million marchers had converged on London from all corners of the country to demand a second referendum before the enactment of a Brexit radically at odds with the original prospectus offered by the Leave campaign in 2016. So..."

The WA was not sight unseen - Parliament has been debating it for over a year - the amendments attained by Boris were a mere 100 pages long. The 31st was the deadline and therefore was the rush to pass it - so that we didn't have to go through the torture of another extension.


For God's sake a second referendum has been rejected by Parliament twice!

One million did not march - I think it was 10 or 20 thousand ( the Police will have the numbers) bused in by - we know not who paid for it - but we can take a good guess.

Corbyn has finally agreed to a GE in Dec - Labour will try to amend the bill to allow 16-17 yr olds the vote and EU nationals and ex pats. LibDems are agin that and want Bercow to disallow it ( they do not want to be seen rejecting it)- Boris has a motion disallowing such amendments, which will be put to both Houses, before another vote for a GE.

Remaniacs are all over the internet telling us to vote BP - lol - they want the Brexit vote split so that their wreckers win by default. It ain't gonna work this time ----

We are probably looking at a Tory majority win - with, one hopes, a few BP MPs over the thresh hold, who, backed by the DUP have a good chance of thrashing out a decent WA with the Gov. It is expected that Labour will lose 100 seats - LibDems will pick up some but so will BP and Boris.

Roll on Dec.

With a welcome prorogation in between now and then - zero Brexit fatigue.

 

[FakeName]

Untrue.

I posted the proof.

simply saying "untrue" is in no way, shape, or form a refutation.

 

[Queen Titania]

I posted the proof.

simply saying "untrue" is in no way, shape, or form a refutation.

You may get your answer in a December election - if the motion to have one gets through Parliament without Labours outrageous amendments and thus has to be pulled.

 

[Queen Titania]

A Deputy Speaker, Lindsay Hoyle, in the chair did not select any amendments to the motion for a Dec election bar a vote on the actual date.

So we shall have our GE on the 9th or the 12th Dec ---- to be put to the vote tonight.

Phew --- no more Brexit shocks for a month -

 

[georgephillip]

The WA was not sight unseen - Parliament has been debating it for over a year - the amendments attained by Boris were a mere 100 pages long. The 31st was the deadline and therefore was the rush to pass it - so that we didn't have to go through the torture of another extension.


For God's sake a second referendum has been rejected by Parliament twice!

One million did not march - I think it was 10 or 20 thousand ( the Police will have the numbers) bused in by - we know not who paid for it - but we can take a good guess.

Corbyn has finally agreed to a GE in Dec - Labour will try to amend the bill to allow 16-17 yr olds the vote and EU nationals and ex pats. LibDems are agin that and want Bercow to disallow it ( they do not want to be seen rejecting it)- Boris has a motion disallowing such amendments, which will be put to both Houses, before another vote for a GE.

Remaniacs are all over the internet telling us to vote BP - lol - they want the Brexit vote split so that their wreckers win by default. It ain't gonna work this time ----

We are probably looking at a Tory majority win - with, one hopes, a few BP MPs over the thresh hold, who, backed by the DUP have a good chance of thrashing out a decent WA with the Gov. It is expected that Labour will lose 100 seats - LibDems will pick up some but so will BP and Boris.

Roll on Dec.

With a welcome prorogation in between now and then - zero Brexit fatigue.

Corbyn has finally agreed to a GE in Dec - Labour will try to amend the bill to allow 16-17 yr olds the vote and EU nationals and ex pats. LibDems are agin that and want Bercow to disallow it ( they do not want to be seen rejecting it)- Boris has a motion disallowing such amendments, which will be put to both Houses, before another vote for a GE.

Whatever happened to Bojo's "I'd rather be dead in a ditch" than accept another extension? Pardon my ignorance, but it appears the UK is no longer united? The divisions within your country over the last three years are very similar to what Trump has inflicted upon this land. Do you worry that whatever the outcome of your upcoming GE, your imperial history makes it likely that Dean Acheson's verdict on Britain of a half-century ago that you "lost an empire" and "not yet found a role" still rings true?

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/brexit-extention-boris-johnson-s-election-bid-defeat-mean-u-ncna1073096

 

[Queen Titania]

Whatever happened to Bojo's "I'd rather be dead in a ditch" than accept another extension? Pardon my ignorance, but it appears the UK is no longer united? The divisions within your country over the last three years are very similar to what Trump has inflicted upon this land. Do you worry that whatever the outcome of your upcoming GE, your imperial history makes it likely that Dean Acheson's verdict on Britain of a half-century ago that you "lost an empire" and "not yet found a role" still rings true?

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/brexit-extention-boris-johnson-s-election-bid-defeat-mean-u-ncna1073096

I have explained what happened above George.

Bercow broke all Parliamentary conventions and handed the order paper, which is Govs, over to the opposition = the opposition then decided which bills would be put to the House.
The opposition put forth the Benn Bill forcing Boris to ask for an extension if the 'Deal' had not been agreed by Parliament - it holds him, by UK law, not to go out on a 'No-Deal' on the 31st. Corbyn promised, in Parliament, that Boris could have his election if he let the Benn Bill pass uncontested - Boris did. Corbyn reneged. All of the letters to the EU can be found on line.


Ummmm yeh - Gov used to leave us alone whilst it busied itself with Empire - now it doesn't have one, so has not a lot to do, it bothers us a lot !

Anyway we have our election on the 12th December unless the Lords make a fuss ---- would they dare?

Annnnnd Bercow goes on the 31st Oct - hateful, odious, traitorous, little sh'it.

 

[georgephillip]

I have explained what happened above George.

Bercow broke all Parliamentary conventions and handed the order paper, which is Govs, over to the opposition = the opposition then decided which bills would be put to the House.
The opposition put forth the Benn Bill forcing Boris to ask for an extension if the 'Deal' had not been agreed by Parliament - it holds him, by UK law, not to go out on a 'No-Deal' on the 31st. Corbyn promised, in Parliament, that Boris could have his election if he let the Benn Bill pass uncontested - Boris did. Corbyn reneged. All of the letters to the EU can be found on line.


Ummmm yeh - Gov used to leave us alone whilst it busied itself with Empire - now it doesn't have one, so has not a lot to do, it bothers us a lot !

Anyway we have our election on the 12th December unless the Lords make a fuss ---- would they dare?

Annnnnd Bercow goes on the 31st Oct - hateful, odious, traitorous, little sh'it.

Ummmm yeh - Gov used to leave us alone whilst it busied itself with Empire - now it doesn't have one, so has not a lot to do, it bothers us a lot !

Lenin warned the world over a century ago:

Capitalism has grown into a world system of colonial oppression and financial strangulation of the overwhelming majority of the world's population by a handful of "advanced" countries. This booty is is shared between two or three powerful world plunderers armed to the teeth (America, Great Britain, and Japan), and they are drawing the whole world into their war over the division of their spoils.

 

[Queen Titania]

Lenin warned the world over a century ago:

Capitalism has grown into a world system of colonial oppression and financial strangulation of the overwhelming majority of the world's population by a handful of "advanced" countries. This booty is is shared between two or three powerful world plunderers armed to the teeth (America, Great Britain, and Japan), and they are drawing the whole world into their war over the division of their spoils.

Yeh well if Corbyn wins - we shall see shan't we.

 

[georgephillip]

Yeh well if Corbyn wins - we shall see shan't we.

Yeh well if Corbyn wins - we shall see shan't we.

We shall indeed, QT.
We have a similar candidate here with Bernie, so perhaps the 40 year experiment with neoliberal economics is about to end?
The Federal Reserve has been taking secretive actions in this country last seen in the wake of 2008's Great Recession; perhaps the worse is yet to come?

https://wallstreetonparade.com/2019/10/the-fed-fears-an-explosion-on-wall-street-heres-how-jpmorgan-lit-the-fuse/

 

[Queen Titania]

We shall indeed, QT.
We have a similar candidate here with Bernie, so perhaps the 40 year experiment with neoliberal economics is about to end?
The Federal Reserve has been taking secretive actions in this country last seen in the wake of 2008's Great Recession; perhaps the worse is yet to come?

https://wallstreetonparade.com/2019/10/the-fed-fears-an-explosion-on-wall-street-heres-how-jpmorgan-lit-the-fuse/

Oh yer and on what resources is Corbyn going to sustain all the people in these isles + the rest of the world that he intends to invite here? huh?

Corbyn is a 17yr old protester trapped in a 70 yr old mans body - but Macdonnell - now there is a dangerous man if ever, God forbid, he should move into No 11.

 

[georgephillip]

Oh yer and on what resources is Corbyn going to sustain all the people in these isles + the rest of the world that he intends to invite here? huh?

Corbyn is a 17yr old protester trapped in a 70 yr old mans body - but Macdonnell - now there is a dangerous man if ever, God forbid, he should move into No 11.

Corbyn is a 17yr old protester trapped in a 70 yr old mans body - but Macdonnell - now there is a dangerous man if ever, God forbid, he should move into No 11.

Is this who you're referring to?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/06/john-mcdonnell-open-to-second-scottish-independence-vote

 

[Queen Titania]

Is this who you're referring to?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/06/john-mcdonnell-open-to-second-scottish-independence-vote

Yes - don't be fooled by Mr Mcdonnell.

 

[RickWA]

Whatever happened to Bojo's "I'd rather be dead in a ditch" than accept another extension? Pardon my ignorance, but it appears the UK is no longer united? The divisions within your country over the last three years are very similar to what Trump has inflicted upon this land. Do you worry that whatever the outcome of your upcoming GE, your imperial history makes it likely that Dean Acheson's verdict on Britain of a half-century ago that you "lost an empire" and "not yet found a role" still rings true?

https://www.nbcnews.com/think/opinion/brexit-extention-boris-johnson-s-election-bid-defeat-mean-u-ncna1073096

This post is trash, George. While I don’t want to participate in a threadjack of this OP, the USA was severely divided well before Trump. Where the heck were you through the Bush and Obama years?

We agree on just about nothing.

 

[Queen Titania]

This was funny yesterday - Soubry ( talking) was a Tory who changed Parties ( to Change UK) against Brexit. Flint is that rare breed, a Labour Brexiteer. Soubry had a young man ( a fool) arrested, he was imprisoned, for calling her a Nazi and the like...... Oddly though I am going to miss her ---- dunno why.

 

[georgephillip]

Yes - don't be fooled by Mr Mcdonnell.

Yes - don't be fooled by Mr Mcdonnell.

How do his views on Scottish independence affect your opinions on his credibility?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/06/john-mcdonnell-open-to-second-scottish-independence-vote

"Interviewed by the broadcaster Iain Dale, McDonnell said: 'We would not block something like that. We would let the Scottish people decide. That’s democracy.'

"McDonnell admitted Labour was split on the issue, but implied the UK leadership agreed. 'There are other views within the party, but that’s our view,' he said.

"His remarks, which follow a poll on Monday (8/2019) showing 52% of Scottish voters now back independence, contradict Scottish Labour policy and the formal position of the UK party not to support another plebiscite on independence."

 

[georgephillip]

This post is trash, George. While I don’t want to participate in a threadjack of this OP, the USA was severely divided well before Trump. Where the heck were you through the Bush and Obama years?

We agree on just about nothing.

This post is trash, George. While I don’t want to participate in a threadjack of this OP, the USA was severely divided well before Trump. Where the heck were you through the Bush and Obama years?

We agree on just about nothing.

I would have to reluctantly agree, Rick if you were gullible enough to vote for Bush or Obama or Trump or Hillary. Imho, the US and UK have endured a forty year experiment in neoliberal economics.

Manufacturing has been hollowed out in both countries, driving economic inequality to 1929 levels.

Brexit and Trump are the unintended consequences of those lost decades, and I suspect they are not the last we will see?

http://speri.dept.shef.ac.uk/2016/11/22/trump-brexit-and-neoliberalism/

 

[Queen Titania]

How do his views on Scottish independence affect your opinions on his credibility?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/06/john-mcdonnell-open-to-second-scottish-independence-vote

"Interviewed by the broadcaster Iain Dale, McDonnell said: 'We would not block something like that. We would let the Scottish people decide. That’s democracy.'

"McDonnell admitted Labour was split on the issue, but implied the UK leadership agreed. 'There are other views within the party, but that’s our view,' he said.

"His remarks, which follow a poll on Monday (8/2019) showing 52% of Scottish voters now back independence, contradict Scottish Labour policy and the formal position of the UK party not to support another plebiscite on independence."

His thoughts on the SNP asking for another Scottish referendum makes no difference to my view of him. The trial, over alleged sexual offences, of the ex Leader of the SNP, Salmond, is due to begin in January so the SNP want this election done fast before that particular sh'it begins to it the fan.

The majority of Scots don't want to Leave the Union and the EU have told the SNP that they will not be welcome in the EU alone, as an independent state.

It is going to be interesting to see how Scotland votes in Dec though. Before the reemergence of the SNP Scotland was Liberal country - The Liberal Party has over time morphed into the Liberal Democrats who will stand on a Revoke Art 50 platform in the election.

Be interesting to see who Leave voting Wales votes for too .

 

[Queen Titania]

I would have to reluctantly agree, Rick if you were gullible enough to vote for Bush or Obama or Trump or Hillary. Imho, the US and UK have endured a forty year experiment in neoliberal economics.

Manufacturing has been hollowed out in both countries, driving economic inequality to 1929 levels.

Brexit and Trump are the unintended consequences of those lost decades, and I suspect they are not the last we will see?

http://speri.dept.shef.ac.uk/2016/11/22/trump-brexit-and-neoliberalism/

 

[RickWA]

We shall indeed, QT.
We have a similar candidate here with Bernie, so perhaps the 40 year experiment with neoliberal economics is about to end?
The Federal Reserve has been taking secretive actions in this country last seen in the wake of 2008's Great Recession; perhaps the worse is yet to come?

https://wallstreetonparade.com/2019/10/the-fed-fears-an-explosion-on-wall-street-heres-how-jpmorgan-lit-the-fuse/

I would have to reluctantly agree, Rick if you were gullible enough to vote for Bush or Obama or Trump or Hillary. Imho, the US and UK have endured a forty year experiment in neoliberal economics.

Manufacturing has been hollowed out in both countries, driving economic inequality to 1929 levels.

Brexit and Trump are the unintended consequences of those lost decades, and I suspect they are not the last we will see?

http://speri.dept.shef.ac.uk/2016/11/22/trump-brexit-and-neoliberalism/

I vote Libertarian and have since 1992.

It’s good to see you back here, George.

 

[georgephillip]

His thoughts on the SNP asking for another Scottish referendum makes no difference to my view of him. The trial, over alleged sexual offences, of the ex Leader of the SNP, Salmond, is due to begin in January so the SNP want this election done fast before that particular sh'it begins to it the fan.

The majority of Scots don't want to Leave the Union and the EU have told the SNP that they will not be welcome in the EU alone, as an independent state.

It is going to be interesting to see how Scotland votes in Dec though. Before the reemergence of the SNP Scotland was Liberal country - The Liberal Party has over time morphed into the Liberal Democrats who will stand on a Revoke Art 50 platform in the election.

Be interesting to see who Leave voting Wales votes for too .

If the entire UK re-voted on leaving the EU, do you believe results would be different?