chemically-induced abortion

[Woolleybugger]

It is in no way a fact. Not legally nor scientifically. It's an opinion only. It has some validity biologically. It's been used legally. Assertion, legal or scientific, is not fact.
Making abortion-on-demand illegal doesn't make the womb state property any more than having murder committed in one's own home makes private homes state property. Not any more than having heroin illegal makes veins state property, having child pornography illegal makes children state property, having bank robbery illegal makes banks state property, on and on. The state restricting behavior is what laws are. When that behavior impacts others, there's no dispute that laws restricting it are a proper function of government. Abortion is not an exception.

No one who opposes legal or unrestricted abortion supports "forced motherhood" -- such an assertion, the very idea, just the term is spurious to the point of being utter nonsense. I support fully a woman's right to choose; to choose to be responsible, to choose any of the many and low-cost forms of birth-control available, to choose to keep her legs closed.

"Forced motherhood" - Beyond ridiculous and typical dissembling newspeak, insulting to the most limited of intellects.

Fact: Abortion is legal.
Fact: Abortion is not murder.
Fact: Because abortion is legal and it is not murder, the fetus being aborted is not human.
Fact: It has been upheld consistently for decades.
Fact: Your opinion can only become fact if it becomes law.
Fact: Your opinion will never gain enough support to become law.
Fact: Your party leaders use abortion to rile you up so you will let them fleece you every election and then ignore you.
Fact: Your opinion did not sway the courts in the Texas case.
Fact: If you do not want an abortion, don't have one.

 

[Emily]

Fact: Abortion is legal.
Fact: Abortion is not murder.
Fact: Because abortion is legal and it is not murder, the fetus being aborted is not human.
Fact: It has been upheld consistently for decades.
Fact: Your opinion can only become fact if it becomes law.
Fact: Your opinion will never gain enough support to become law.
Fact: Your party leaders use abortion to rile you up so you will let them fleece you every election and then ignore you.
Fact: Your opinion did not sway the courts in the Texas case.
Fact: If you do not want an abortion, don't have one.

Abortion is legal. <- Yes, fact, via majority (not unanimous) court decision, not via legislation.
Abortion is not murder. <- Opinion.
Because abortion is legal and it is not murder, the fetus being aborted is not human. <- Second premise of foundation incorrect (legal: fact/murder: opinion). Conclusion (inhumanity of fetus) spurious even if both premises accepted.
It has been upheld consistently for decades. <- Yes, fact.
Your opinion can only become fact if it becomes law. <- My opinion (that abortion is morally wrong in most circumstances and that duly elected state legislators ought to have the freedom to legislate on that basis if they choose) can become reality if the SCOTUS reverses a decision, something it's done several times.
Your opinion will never gain enough support to become law. <- Opinion.
Your party leaders use abortion to rile you up so you will let them fleece you every election and then ignore you. <- Incorrect. My party does no such thing. Both major parties use the abortion issue.
Your opinion did not sway the courts in the Texas case. <- Yes, fact.
If you do not want an abortion, don't have one. <- The argument has no more validity now than it did the first time I addressed it a day or so ago.

 

[Woolleybugger]

Abortion is legal. <- Yes, fact, via majority (not unanimous) court decision, not via legislation.
Abortion is not murder. <- Opinion.
Because abortion is legal and it is not murder, the fetus being aborted is not human. <- Second premise of foundation incorrect (legal: fact/murder: opinion). Conclusion (inhumanity of fetus) spurious even if both premises accepted.
It has been upheld consistently for decades. <- Yes, fact.
Your opinion can only become fact if it becomes law. <- My opinion (that abortion is morally wrong in most circumstances and that duly elected state legislators ought to have the freedom to legislate on that basis if they choose) can become reality if the SCOTUS reverses a decision, something it's done several times.
Your opinion will never gain enough support to become law. <- Opinion.
Your party leaders use abortion to rile you up so you will let them fleece you every election and then ignore you. <- Incorrect. My party does no such thing. Both major parties use the abortion issue.
Your opinion did not sway the courts in the Texas case. <- Yes, fact.
If you do not want an abortion, don't have one. <- The argument has no more validity now than it did the first time I addressed it a day or so ago.

Again, murder is a crime defined by the state. I know it hurts you to admit you will never make pregnant women into criminals for having an abortion but at some point, you have to give it up. No one is going to let you control other women's bodies. Now go torment your daughters or your friends into keeping unwanted pregnancies so you can suck up to some pastor somewhere. I have had enough of this nonsense.

 

[Emily]

Again, murder is a crime defined by the state.

The word 'murder' can certainly be used to refer to a crime defined by the state. It can also be used more broadly to refer to the willful terminating of human life for self-serving purposes. That's the way I've been using it throughout. The state makes laws; it doesn't define what's moral. Laws can be changes; court decisions can be reversed.

I know it hurts you to admit you will never make pregnant women into criminals for having an abortion but at some point, you have to give it up.

I do not have to give it up, nor will I, nor will anyone who opposes legal infaticide.

No one is going to let you control other women's bodies. Also, it's not the body of the pregnant woman that's the concern, it's the body of the infant in her womb.

Never asked to; no one did. Only want elected legislators to be free to legislate on the matter, by the will of their constituents.

Now go torment your daughters or your friends into keeping unwanted pregnancies so you can suck up to some pastor somewhere. I have had enough of this nonsense.

I've debated the issue respectfully; this was totally uncalled for.

 

[Caroljo]

Fact: Abortion is legal.
Fact: Abortion is not murder.
Fact: Because abortion is legal and it is not murder, the fetus being aborted is not human.
Fact: It has been upheld consistently for decades.
Fact: Your opinion can only become fact if it becomes law.
Fact: Your opinion will never gain enough support to become law.
Fact: Your party leaders use abortion to rile you up so you will let them fleece you every election and then ignore you.
Fact: Your opinion did not sway the courts in the Texas case.
Fact: If you do not want an abortion, don't have one.

If abortion is not murder, then why is it that someone that murders a woman AND her unborn child charged with 2 murders? According to you, that unborn child is not human. Yet if that unborn child is killed by someone, they get charged with murder. You can't have it both ways.

 

[Woolleybugger]

If a fetus is a human being, then abortion is murder. Since abortion up until the third trimester is legal, then abortion is not murder. If abortion is not murder, then killing the fetus is not murder.

Now all of you can change this quite simply. Win a national election, get your anti-abortion jurists, Senators and policies. Go for it. In fact, make this a central part of your platform. You want to overturn Roe and all the cases since then that have upheld it. You want to prosecute mothers for murder if they get an abortion. You want to make a fetus into a legal human being with all the rights we all share. You want to force rape victims to carry their rapists children, incest victims too. The next step will be to outlaw contraceptives that stop the fertilization process. You want the pregnant woman to be managed by the state because if she does not keep that fetus alive and healthy, she will be negligent at best, an accessory to murder at worst. Expect Mexico to set up abortion clinics on the border just like they do with dentists and cosmetic surgeons today. Then you can keep track of women who cross over to commit murders and arrest them on the way back. You can do all these things, I hope you keep talking about it because as long as this is what you focus on, women will never vote for you en masse again. Never.