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Currently, The Two Biggest Points On Healthcare

Discussion in 'Latest Political News and Current Events' started by The Thinker, Jun 14, 2019.

  1. The Thinker

    The Thinker Over The Top Abuser

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    1) ObamaScam was a failure. We know this because healthcare is still an ongoing issue of concern. Of course, the big leftist push for Medicare for all also makes it clear ObamaScam was a failure. It's not even debatable to anyone who can think rationally. But believe it or not, there are still some knuckledraggers out there who actually believed the fundamental lies ObamaScam was built on.

    2) The biggest problem for American health is extremely difficult to handle with "healthcare" or healthcare insurance. That biggest problem is the choices Americans make with their health, i.e. DIET and exercise. Leftists babble about healthcare nonsensically: how much we spend per capita, blah blah blah. There is nothing that can be done about people who choose to eat poorly and are sedentary. In fact, it's the poor who are the most obese in America. And obviously, if you can afford to eat yourself into obesity, you can afford to eat less and eat healthier.

    So when will leftists start being honest about healthcare? Sheez what a stupid question I just asked.
     
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  2. ObamacareForever

    ObamacareForever Governor

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    The biggest problem in healthcare is price-gouging. The creation of medicare-for-all is a solution.
     
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  3. The Thinker

    The Thinker Over The Top Abuser

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    There can't possibly be a Medicare-for-all. Medicare is a system in which people pay a tax their entire working life with the promise of healthcare when they reach 65. So to go from a system where people prepay for 30 to 40 or even 50 years to a system in which people get benefits immediately by definition makes it an entirely different system.

    As for price-gouging, there is no bigger price-gouger than our federal government. Why on Earth would I run to to them for protection against price-gouging???
     
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  4. Bear Claw

    Bear Claw President

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    Another failed promise by trump.

    "I will have a new and better health care plan for all"


    WHERE IS IT??
     
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  5. Barbella

    Barbella Senator

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    We are largely responsible for our own health, barring certain hereditary diseases.

    Eating right doesn't have to be expensive... kidney beans, white beans, black beans, lentils, brown rice, potatoes... healthy healthy healthy, cheap cheap cheap.

    Water. Cheap. Fruit in season, cheap. Oatmeal for breakfast.

    Soda pop, chips, sugar-laden ready-to-eat cereal, processed convenience foods, meats of all kinds, not healthy, and certainly not cheap. And yet... that's what fatties buy, and consume in guargantuan amounts in America, eating themselves right into a diabetic coma and overloaded, diseased heart.

    Then they whine.
     
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  6. ObamacareForever

    ObamacareForever Governor

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    No, they aren't prepaying anything. The money being taxed today is being spent today. There is no reason the tax level can't be increased to accommodate more people on medicare.
    Wut???
     
  7. reason10

    reason10 Mayor

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    You're HALF RIGHT.

    Price gouging is the biggest problem. That million dollar heart attack, that $20,000 MRI, those $50 aspirins, that $10,000 a day room. The medical profession is protected from market forces.

    And Medicare is the program that began protecting the health care industry from market forces in 1964. Medicare for all (and actually, the proper term should be medicaid, because Medicare today actually comes with some premiums) protects price gouging doctors, hospitals, and teaching universities.
     
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  8. ObamacareForever

    ObamacareForever Governor

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    medicare pays far less for procedures than private insurers do.
    https://www.healthcaredive.com/news...-physicians-hospitals-far-more-than-m/445949/
     
  9. reason10

    reason10 Mayor

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    No, they aren't prepaying anything. The money being taxed today is being spent today.

    Surprisingly, we agree on that as well. Same with Sosha Curity. It was NEVER a government insurance program for retirees and there was NEVER a Sosha Curity trust fund. And taxes collected today definitely are being spent today. And taxes 10, 20, 30 years from now are being spent today, thanks to deficits, (70 percent of which are for Entitlements.)

    There is no reason the tax level can't be increased to accommodate more people on medicare.

    There are a MILLION reasons why taxes should NOT be increased at all. There isn't enough money in the world to cover everyone on a Medicaid program.

    (Medicare for all is a lie. Democrats want to buy votes with free health care, and Medicare today comes with pretty stiff premiums for Part B care.)

    The problem is not government spending too little. The problem is the medical profession PRICE GOUGING. And this idiotic Medicare For All does NOTHING to stop price gouging.

    When the price of gasoline goes up 10 cents, Democrats in the Senate drag oil company execs before a committee to grill them and pontificate on price gouging. When's the last time you say Democrats drag hospital administrators and CEOs, university deans, and other price gougers before a committee to grill them about that MILLION DOLLAR HEART ATTACK, or that $100,000 appendectomy?

     
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  10. ObamacareForever

    ObamacareForever Governor

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    Americans spend roughly 18% of GDP on healthcare. Just raises tax to 18% of GDP. BAM M4A is paid for.

    M4A combats price gouging because a single payer has far more leverage with doctors/hospitals/pharma to negotiate lower reimbursement rates than the current assortment of private insurers.
     
  11. reason10

    reason10 Mayor

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    This report is WRONG on many counts. (I worked in insurance for several years and I know the facts.)
    1. Medicare Part A (which is hospital care) is constantly engaged in rationing, where Medicare patients are kicked out of the hospital sometimes on the second or third day when their DRG runs out. Doctors are accepting fewer and fewer Medicare patients and are consequently passing the cost over to those not on Medicare, burdening insurance companies.

    2. Insurance companies are prevented BY LAW from engaging in the rationing that goes on every day by Medicare, and yet health insurance policies ALL base their payment schedules on usual and customary costs. Private health insurers operate under different rules than the government and are held to different standards. Any private company operating with the same accounting rules as Medicare is shut down.

    3. Medicare began this price gouging by radically increasing the demand for health care beginning in 1964. Tell the sickest most vulnerable sector of the population they are entitled to free health care and they bombard the clinics and doctors everywhere. When demand goes up, but supply doesn't, PRICE GOES UP.

    Economics 101.

    And all Medicaid For All will do is make matters worse.
     
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  12. reason10

    reason10 Mayor

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    Americans spend roughly 18% of GDP on healthcare. Just raises tax to 18% of GDP. BAM M4A is paid for.

    Nope. Raise taxes and the economy goes south while doctors and hospitals raise their prices. That has been the ONLY outcome of raising taxes as far as health care has been concerned.


    M4A combats price gouging because a single payer has far more leverage with doctors/hospitals/pharma to negotiate lower reimbursement rates than the current assortment of private insurers.

    Nope. Doctors will continue to raise their rates, or worse.
    Fewer and fewer people will go into the medical profession. Fewer companies will build hospitals. Supply will diminish while demand will skyrocket. Then you'll have what occurs in EVERY country in the world that has single payer: RATIONING.

    It has already been tried. And it has been a miserable failure every time it has been tried.
     
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  13. ObamacareForever

    ObamacareForever Governor

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    Imagine a world where the doctors have no choice but to take medicare reimbursements levels or expatriate themselves to some mythical foreign country where they will get anywhere near what medicare offers.

    Payment for services is not increasing the demand. The amount of people getting sick/injured is not a function of whether they can pay it. There would be an initial surge of people going to the doctor, but it would reach an equilibrium pretty fast.
     
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  14. The Thinker

    The Thinker Over The Top Abuser

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    All true. The end of this road is that leftists are fools who not only refuse to accept reality, but are willing to hand over yet even more power over their lives to the federal government. And to make them even DUMBER, they do so after Medicare resulted in 800% cost overruns! These people are just plain DUMB.
     
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  15. The Thinker

    The Thinker Over The Top Abuser

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    I'm certainly not surprised you fantasize about a world of government forcing people to do things. Frankly, that's exactly what I expect from leftists.

    No, it wouldn't. Losers who don't earn things and are instead given them free will always be abusers. My wife saw this for decades with losers making the hospital rounds to abuse the system for shelter, pain meds and god knows what other character defects.
     
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  16. ObamacareForever

    ObamacareForever Governor

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    They would lose all their customers. M4A controls their payments. Doctors would be forced to take what the gubment is offering. take it or leave it.
    We already have rationing. Most people call it triage.
    Except for everywhere. including the US where Medicare is quite succesful.
     
  17. ObamacareForever

    ObamacareForever Governor

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    Capitalism only works if the actors are ethical. The price-gouging in the healthcare industry is entirely unethical and needs to be dealt with. Harshly.


    So under the private insurance system deadbeats ran go to hospitals shelter/paid meds? How would that be any different under a single payer?
     
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  18. The Thinker

    The Thinker Over The Top Abuser

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    1) Government works only if government is ethical.

    2) Private insurance has the profit motive to reduce fraud and abuse. Government doesn't care, it's not their money. What really needs to happen is liberal thinking needs to go away.
     
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  19. PhilFish

    PhilFish Administrator Staff Member

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    Deadbeats are an ethical dilemma too, methinks..
     
  20. ObamacareForever

    ObamacareForever Governor

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    Democratically elected government cares about the money its spends, if they are too fraudulent or wasteful or abusive,they won't be reelected.
     
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