Dateline 17,000 BC: The First Global Warming Debate

[Lukey]

So you think civilization can continue on with no problems at all if the climate continues on the path it's going?

Do you think civilization can continue on with no problems at all even if we somehow could put a stop to the path the climate is on?

 

[Lukey]

Whether you believe climate change is man made or not, it is an existential threat to mankind, and we as a species need to find a way to preserve the climate that has allowed humans to thrive.

And I guess it's just a coincidence that the "way to preserve the climate" just happens to be the progressive (anti-capitalist) agenda?

 

[ObamacareForever]

Do you think civilization can continue on with no problems at all even if we somehow could put a stop to the path the climate is on?

Transitioning away from fossil fuels won't be easy. Things will change. But it's necessary not so we have jobs and a cushy life, it necessary so our children's children have jobs and a cushy lives.

 

[ObamacareForever]

And I guess it's just a coincidence that the "way to preserve the climate" just happens to be the progressive (anti-capitalist) agenda?

without a habitable planet what good is capitalism?

 

[Lukey]

Transitioning away from fossil fuels won't be easy. Things will change. But it's necessary not so we have jobs and a cushy life, it necessary so our children's children have jobs and a cushy lives.

That didn't answer the question. Do you really think man will be here in another 100,000 years? 10,000? 1,000? I am beginning to think probably not, regardless of what we do about "climate change."

 

[Lukey]

without a habitable planet what good is capitalism?

So it is just a coincidence that in order to "save the planet" we have to adopt socialism? You really believe that?

 

[Barbella]

I think civilization will have problems regardless of the path the climate is on.

But I'll take problems in a world with a lush tropical Colorado over one with an ice age Colorado any day.

You do realize we're technically in an ice age right now don't you?

And you do realize that 80% of the earth's post molten history has been spent OUT of ice ages with a tropical Colorado and forests from pole to pole, right?

A warming Earth is merely returning to a more regular normal state.

I can't remember another middle of May when my horses had to wear blankets at night.

This is a first for me. I blame global warming.

 

[ObamacareForever]

So it is just a coincidence that in order to "save the planet" we have to adopt socialism? You really believe that?

Who said anything about socialism?
Climate change and economics are 2 different things

 

[Capitalist]

without a habitable planet what good is capitalism?

Evidence shows that 80% of the earth's history says we are moving towards a MORE habitable climate not less.

You got nothing but fear and politics.

 

[Capitalist]

Who said anything about socialism?
Climate change and economics are 2 different things

You are being willfully ignorant now.

 

[Lukey]

Who said anything about socialism?
Climate change and economics are 2 different things

Not really. It's certainly not free market economics that you guys are suggesting we "simply must d0" to save the climate. It's more government, more taxes, more central planning...

 

[ObamacareForever]

That didn't answer the question. Do you really think man will be here in another 100,000 years? 10,000? 1,000? I am beginning to think probably not, regardless of what we do about "climate change."

It possible for mankind to survive for another 100,000 years. it would even be plausible if we as a species didn't collectively throw out arms up in defeat because the problem didn't have an easy solution.

 

[Lukey]

It possible for mankind to survive for another 100,000 years. it would even be plausible if we as a species didn't collectively throw out arms up in defeat because the problem didn't have an easy solution.

We're "throwing our arms up in defeat" because the only solutions you all will propose are seriously anti-capitalist. Lets raise taxes on carbon and use the funding to eliminate wage taxes, not to grow government. Then maybe we could get some agreement. But no, that's not what the left wants - the real agenda here is to grow government control. And THAT is why we will never solve this issue.

 

[ObamacareForever]

Not really. It's certainly not free market economics that you guys are suggesting we "simply must d0" to save the climate. It's more government, more taxes, more central planning...

I am not saying capitalism can't solve the problem, but it hasn't. It's probably going to require the government
Capitalists and completely self-interested. Future generations have interests that are not represented in the market.

 

[Lukey]

I am not saying capitalism can't solve the problem, but it hasn't. It's probably going to require the government
Capitalists and completely self-interested. Future generations have interests that are not represented in the market.

Bullshit! Tax carbon and use the revenues to eliminate wage taxes. Your guys won't even acknowledge such a compromise because the real agenda here is growing government, not reducing "climate change."

 

[ObamacareForever]

We're "throwing our arms up in defeat" because the only solutions you all will propose are seriously anti-capitalist. Lets raise taxes on carbon and use the funding to eliminate wage taxes, not to grow government. Then maybe we could get some agreement. But no, that's not what the left wants - the real agenda here is to grow government control. And THAT is why we will never solve this issue.

I am all for raising taxes on harmful behaviors, burning fossil fuels, smoking cigarettes, etc. I would prefer to use that revenue(carbon tax, not cigarette tax) for reforestation.

 

[ObamacareForever]

Bullshit! Tax carbon and use the revenues to eliminate wage taxes. Your guys won't even acknowledge such a compromise because the real agenda here is growing government, not reducing "climate change."

So you at least acknowledge that climate change could cause problems for civilization in the future?
It's just that capitalism hasn't solved the problem so it's too hard to deal with?

 

[Lukey]

I am all for raising taxes on harmful behaviors, burning fossil fuels, smoking cigarettes, etc. I would prefer to use that revenue(carbon tax, not cigarette tax) for reforestation.

Yeah, like I said - it's always gotta go for more big government:

http://www.nature.com/news/global-count-reaches-3-trillion-trees-1.18287

This is why we will never get to an agreement on this issue. Not because environmentally conscious conservatives wouldn't agree to tax carbon, but because you guys won't agree to trade something that makes the business (jobs) environment stronger.

 

[Lukey]

So you at least acknowledge that climate change could cause problems for civilization in the future?
It's just that capitalism hasn't solved the problem so it's too hard to deal with?

I don't dispute that climate is "changing." It has been changing since the beginning of time. I suspect that even if we reduce carbon usage, it will continue. But I am all for reducing carbon usage (for lots of reasons). I just want to make it part of a capitalist, rather than an anti-capitalist, approach to the issue.

 

[as seen on tv]

Stay tuned for next weeks episode,, where Grog proposes sacrificing a virgin every year on the winter solstice, in order to stop the glacial melting.

And proposes to execute all clan members who disagree with his plan, as "glacier deniers"