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Dems need to abandon the "angry white man" meme

Discussion in 'Latest Political News and Current Events' started by BobbyT, Nov 24, 2012.

  1. BobbyT

    BobbyT Governor

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    It's not that the "angry white man" meme is necessarily untrue - a quick gander at any large Republican gathering will demonstrate that the party primarily comprises white people. It is, rather, that by continuing to refer to Republicans dismissively as "angry white men," the Democrats are creating an atmosphere of exclusiveness. If we, rather, characterize dispirited Republicans as those to whom lies were told, and people who should understandably be upset with mendacious propagandists (the Rushes and WorldNetDaily's for example), then perhaps we could encourage at least some of them to work with us rather than entrenching themselves further. Let the Republicans be the party that divides people up like football fans; we should be the party that waits with open arms for anyone, of any color - even white, who wants to ensure this country continues to be great.
     
  2. OldGaffer

    OldGaffer Governor

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    So are we going with the "duped white man"?
     
  3. BobbyT

    BobbyT Governor

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    Yes, but in the sense of "oh man, that sucks" rather than "oh man, you're an idiot"
     
  4. OldGaffer

    OldGaffer Governor

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    Rofl, it sucks to be an idiot.

    526145_513987591945557_692374202_n.
     
  5. worldlymrb

    worldlymrb America: Love it or Leave it!

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    Statistically, white males own a majority of the wealth in AmericAA- and are currently bring terrorized/raped by a well organized collective of welfare recipients, govt employees, unemployed, illegal aliens, ivory league, union management and TBTF Banks.
     
  6. OldGaffer

    OldGaffer Governor

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    So speaks the duped ones, born to be lackeys and lickspittles of the rich.
     
  7. 888888

    888888 Council Member

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    Watch your step OLGaffer, you might get turned in. The right can dish it out, but don't say anything to them is the game.
     
  8. colfax

    colfax Council Member

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    So even when you shake your white fists at us as "socialists" and "communists", our calling you "angry white men" is too divisive!

    Even that Republican, Senate leader, Sen. Lindsay Graham, acknowledges the GOP has become the "Party of Angry White Men" and needs to remake the Party to represent other types too since he admits there are not enough white guys to sustain the Party.

    http://gawker.com/5939404/sen-lindsey-graham-not-enough-angry-white-guys-to-sustain-gop
     
  9. MaryAnne

    MaryAnne Governor

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    I like that one,Old Gaffer!:eek:)
     
  10. BobbyT

    BobbyT Governor

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    Well, I'm not "shaking my angry white fists" at you, since I am a lifelong liberal Democrat. And I don't really care that they call me a commie, socialist, or whatever. That's on them. I do think, however, that we Democrats risk not picking up a lot of disenfranchised Republicans (who are now mostly calling themselves Independents, since Bush) if we keep lumping them all together under an "angry white man" rubric. I know there are those (one up-thread comes immediately to mind) who really do represent the AWW subset of Republicans. I just don't think we need to be alienating the rest. I thnk lumping all Republicans (or, this new "independent" class of former Republicans) into one writhing mass of pissed off white flesh will cause the losers (of this election) to become even more firmly entrenched in their "us vs them" mentality. We don't need to do that and it isn't good for our party or for the country.
     
  11. Mytzlplk

    Mytzlplk Governor

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    "dispirited" republicans will find their way, and likely share a rejection of what their party stands for as the proximate cause for their move away from it, with shame being the primary reason for their rejection. Why would reinforcing that impede their abandoning them or seeking to change others from within, when the rhetoric of unacceptability will be shared between us? Their acts of denouncing and renouncing won't differ much, if at all, in substance or form from that we use. All you have to do is look at the rhetoric of Frum, Bartlett, Sullivan, etc to see that.

    As a matter of fact, that reformed rightwingnuts are often the worst critics of their former brethren has long served as prime example of what I think underlies the problem of the "rightwing brain" these days. This is because they have to put as much distance between themselves and what they helped create, grow, or perpetuate, to minimize their own shame and self-disgust that arises as a result of it.
     
  12. BobbyT

    BobbyT Governor

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    Mostly because I don't think externally provided shame motivates people to change, internally derived shame does. What happens when you try to shame adults is, in my experience, a more determined effort not to change.
     
  13. NightSwimmer

    NightSwimmer Senator

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    It is not the Democrats' meme to abandon.

    The Republicans have made xenophobia an issue. It is up to them to abandon the behavior. It is not the responsibility of the Democrats to ignore it.
     
  14. BobbyT

    BobbyT Governor

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    I'm not suggesting it's the Democrats' responsibility, I'm suggesting it's counterproductive. Sort of like the Republican noise machine saying Romney was going to win by a landslide - all that did is bring out the Democratic vote to ensure it didn't happen, and make it easier for Republicans to not vote because they didn't think they needed to. I don't care so much if Republicans do stupid things that ruin elections for them. I just don't think Democrats should be doing things that are counterproductive to our goals.
     
  15. worldlymrb

    worldlymrb America: Love it or Leave it!

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    There is a Hedge Fund Manager with over $1.5T assets. Never guess who his boss is (Ain't Obama).
     
  16. Mytzlplk

    Mytzlplk Governor

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    Well, in the case of the examples cited attempting it "internally", they are now pretty much lepers to the lion's share of their ideological brethren, so it's hard to see how your assessment is accurate. Change in their case is usually devoid of it, and of the trickle down variety, as is their madness.

    This shift in meaning on the right happened mainly because of creative, persuasive, long-term work by conservatives themselves. Only advocates with unquestioned ideological bona fides, embedded in organizations known to be core parts of conservative infrastructure, could perform this kind of ideological alchemy. As Yale law professor Dan Kahan has argued, studies and randomized trials are useless in persuading the ideologically committed until such people are convinced that new information is not a threat to their identity. Until then, it goes in one ear and out the other. Only rock-ribbed partisans, not squishy moderates, can successfully engage in this sort of “identity vouching” for previously disregarded facts. Of course, there are limits to how far ideological reinvention can go. As political scientist David Karol has argued, it is unlikely to work when it requires crossing a major, organized member of a party coalition. That’s something environmentalists learned when they tried to encourage evangelicals to break ranks on global warming through the idea of “creation care.” They got their heads handed to them by the main conservative evangelical leaders, who saw the split this would create with energy-producing businesses upon whom Republican depend for support.


    ANd indeed, your "more determined effort not to change" comment is exactly what underlies my analysis of what afflicts the modern "rightwing brain". That "effort to change" necessarily includes recognition of failures in the past and potentially for the future without the change, and there is a great deal in their collective past to be ashamed of. http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...3YCIBQ&usg=AFQjCNHdXR6fFk7jUJKhtckgIavRy3c_bA It's the "why" behind their "rightwing bubble", and their lying, denials, deflections, projections, scapegoating, all the many and varied ways they hide from their shame and self-disgust, and why they are so disgusted with those like you and I.

    Morality and politics are inseparable, and their disgust has its roots in the former. The reality they are hiding from, is the sick and twisted one represented by their historical record, past and present, and therefore themselves, individually and collectively. THeir disgust needs to be driven inward like a sharp rusty nail, where it belongs. George Wallace didn't undergo a conversion because he and his kind were coddled, but rather because he knew what he was gonna be identified as without the CONversion.

    Forgiveness and understanding after the fact is one thing, but until then, CONdemnation of them is justified. Coddling them provides no impetus for the kinda changes needed or desired. It is if anything, more enabling than anything else imo.

    I understand of course your "good intentions", but the dynamics are largely the same as in the "racism" case. http://www.silentracism.com/sr.php

    The simple fact of the matter is, shame has all but lost its effectiveness as a pov-changing, behavior modification tool in the modern rightwingnut, but it's all we have.

    ANd if by "internally" you mean by themselves, as opposed to by members of their own tribe, how is that process ever gonna be started without us giving them a heaping dose of it? They sure as hell aren't gonna get it from their own, as you can see from our experiences here.

    I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree. I have and will never have more than that to offer to any of them as long as they are in the clutches of their cult.
     
  17. Wahbooz

    Wahbooz Governor

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    Well, Bobby, this is the easiest way the Republicans can get them to walk in lockstep to their agenda. If they're not already angry, get them angry by feeding them lies. Once they are angry, they follow so much easier. One man, in Europe in the 30's, had nearly an entire country following in lockstep with him. Or should we call it as it was, goosestep?
     
  18. Qtec90

    Qtec90 Mayor

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    It must suck to be wrong ALL of the time, huh?

    TOP 10 RICHEST (Forbes):

    Poor baby!: And the richest OF ALL is a "Mexican"!!!

    Carlos Slim…………$69.0 billion …Mexico ………….....Telmex, América Móvil, Carso
    Bill Gates ………….$61.0 billion… United States …...Microsoft
    Warren Buffett .. $44.0 billion ...United States .. Berkshire Hathaway
    Bernard Arnault …$41.0 billion .…France ………..… LVMH Moët Hennessy • Louis Vuitton
    Amancio Ortega …$37.5 billion …Spain ……..…….. Inditex Group
    Lawrence Ellison..$36.0 billion … United States ….Oracle Corporation
    Eike Batista ……… $30.0 billion ….Brazil ………….... EBX Group
    Stefan Persson ...$26.0 billion … Sweden ……..… H&M
    Li Ka-shing ……….$25.5 billion …..Hong Kong .….. Cheung Kong Holdings
    Karl Albrecht …….$25.4 billion …. Germany ………..Aldi

    At least 4 (AND Two others if you really want to get PICKY) NOT WHITE & ONLY 3 “American” … Of 395 Billion 400 Million Dollars held by these ten individuals, 257 Billion (WELL OVER half) held by none-Americans

    BTW? Still paying $11.00 a gallon for "Your" gasoline? ... Everyone else (Here locally, at least) is paying around $2.98 per gallon.
     
  19. Wahbooz

    Wahbooz Governor

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    'Now isn't that special'. TBTF banks are a part of that wealthy 'white males' AmericAA (?) you referred to, and by the way Bush coined that term. Fact is you probably have no comprehension how many 'people of color' have lots of money as well.

    You've got all the rants down pat, you must be another mall cop with lots of time on your hands to memorize the latest talking points.

    By the way, that 'AA' is for alcohols anonymous or what?
     
  20. worldlymrb

    worldlymrb America: Love it or Leave it!

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    Soon to be AA-. It's Geithner's credit rating

    I see your talking points haven't changed since '08. 'It's Bush's Fault', or 'Your a Racist'. Although the last talking point is about 50 yrs old now.
     

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