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Dems release their memo and here's the Summary.

Raoul_Luke

I feel a bit lightheaded. Maybe you should drive.
1 Trump believes he can shoot someone and you'd still vote for him. Yes, Trump is just that stupid.
2. I do hope Biden is the candidate...the fake bullshit you right wingers put up isn't sticking.
Me too, the debates will be epic...
 
And, now we know the Republicans had it right. No collusion, and no Russian effort to help Trump win, either. The whole thing was a fabrication from the get go.
And, now we know the Republicans had it right. No collusion, and no Russian effort to help Trump win, either. The whole thing was a fabrication from the get go.
I find it hard to believe Trump won without a little help; Mueller (lifelong Republican fixer) actually found "sweeping and systematic" Russian interference although he couldn't find proof anyone in Trump's orbit colluded.

https://www.vox.com/2018/3/12/17111492/trump-russia-collusion-probe-house-intel-committee

"He also said that while Republicans on the committee agree that Russia did interfere in the 2016 presidential election, they 'disagree with the narrative that they were trying to help Trump.'

"That directly contradicts the US intelligence community’s assessment from January 2017, which clearly states that Russia wanted Trump to win.

"It also contradicts special counsel Robert Mueller’s indictment of 13 Russians for working to help Trump win by sowing divisions via the internet."
 

Raoul_Luke

I feel a bit lightheaded. Maybe you should drive.
I find it hard to believe Trump won without a little help; Mueller (lifelong Republican fixer) actually found "sweeping and systematic" Russian interference although he couldn't find proof anyone in Trump's orbit colluded.

https://www.vox.com/2018/3/12/17111492/trump-russia-collusion-probe-house-intel-committee

"He also said that while Republicans on the committee agree that Russia did interfere in the 2016 presidential election, they 'disagree with the narrative that they were trying to help Trump.'

"That directly contradicts the US intelligence community’s assessment from January 2017, which clearly states that Russia wanted Trump to win.

"It also contradicts special counsel Robert Mueller’s indictment of 13 Russians for working to help Trump win by sowing divisions via the internet."
You are clinging to a constantly weakening false narrative, Mueller is a deep stater, neither Republican or Democrat - just representing the permanent bureaucracy in DC. And his only "lifelong" reputation is for authoritarian prosecutorial overreach. No one in their right mind is arguing that there was no Russian "interference" in the election. They have been "interfering" in ours, as we have been in theirs, for five or six decades. They had no preference in the outcome other than that America come out of it as divided as possible. It is you people who are doing Putin's bidding by trying to tear America to pieces in an effort to overturn that election.

The "Us intelligence community's assessment from January 2017" is a complete fictional construct. First off, it was not "the intelligence community's" at all, but rather the product of Brennan, Clapper and Comey, along with a few hand picked henchpersons from the three agencies they represented. The remaining agencies had no role whatsoever in its production. And we all now know Brennan, Clapper and Comey were (and remain) world class liars. They took advantage of the fact that the Russians, like everyone else, thought Hillary would win, and so their propaganda aimed at dividing America tended toward the issues that Trump supporters felt strongly about. As soon as Trump won, their agit-prop switched to favoring issues Hillary voters felt strongly about. But that fact was left out because it didn't support the false narrative that Trump was "colluding" with them to steal the election (Mueller's 13 indictments notwithstanding).
 
You are clinging to a constantly weakening false narrative, Mueller is a deep stater, neither Republican or Democrat - just representing the permanent bureaucracy in DC. And his only "lifelong" reputation is for authoritarian prosecutorial overreach. No one in their right mind is arguing that there was no Russian "interference" in the election. They have been "interfering" in ours, as we have been in theirs, for five or six decades. They had no preference in the outcome other than that America come out of it as divided as possible. It is you people who are doing Putin's bidding by trying to tear America to pieces in an effort to overturn that election.

The "Us intelligence community's assessment from January 2017" is a complete fictional construct. First off, it was not "the intelligence community's" at all, but rather the product of Brennan, Clapper and Comey, along with a few hand picked henchpersons from the three agencies they represented. The remaining agencies had no role whatsoever in its production. And we all now know Brennan, Clapper and Comey were (and remain) world class liars. They took advantage of the fact that the Russians, like everyone else, thought Hillary would win, and so their propaganda aimed at dividing America tended toward the issues that Trump supporters felt strongly about. As soon as Trump won, their agit-prop switched to favoring issues Hillary voters felt strongly about. But that fact was left out because it didn't support the false narrative that Trump was "colluding" with them to steal the election (Mueller's 13 indictments notwithstanding).
No one in their right mind is arguing that there was no Russian "interference" in the election. They have been "interfering" in ours, as we have been in theirs, for five or six decades. They had no preference in th
There's no doubt about the US meddling in other country's elections. Remember 1996?

https://fair.org/home/hypocrisy-of-russia-did-it-stories-is-hard-to-stomach/
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
I think you owe him an apology considering the FISA court now admits the warrants against Carter Page lacked probable cause:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/carter-page-fisa-warrant-lacked-probable-cause-declassified-doj-order-finds

Ouch!
He was an advisor to both the Kremlin and the Trump campaign at a time when the Russians were breaking US law and interfering in our election. That was probable cause.

The court is not saying the original application was wrong. The two extensions were the ones the judge didn't think justified.
 

Constitutional Sheepdog

][][][%er!!!!!!!
He was an advisor to both the Kremlin and the Trump campaign at a time when the Russians were breaking US law and interfering in our election. That was probable cause.

The court is not saying the original application was wrong. The two extensions were the ones the judge didn't think justified.
Your opinion on what you think he was is irrelevant. The Carter Page FISA warrants lacked PC.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
Your opinion on what you think he was is irrelevant. The Carter Page FISA warrants lacked PC.
Reread the story. The judge was saying the two extensions were a problem.

The facts are that he claimed he was an advisor to the Kremlin. He was also on the Trump campaign...those are not my opinions.
 
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So Yeltsin hiring American campaign advisors is somehow the same kind of government interference as the Russian GRU hacking US election systems?
Clinton arranged for a ten billion dollar IMF loan for Russia at a time when Yeltsin's share in the polls was 8%.

When you consider the amount of money Wall Street was making by bringing "Democracy to Russia", the most surprising aspect of US interference in '96 was how little Americans did to conceal their crimes
.

https://www.globalresearch.ca/us-meddling-in-1996-russian-elections-in-support-of-boris-yeltsin/5568288

"Readers will recall that in the run-up to the 1996 presidential election in Russia, opinion polls put the pro-western incumbent, Boris Yeltsin, in fifth place among the presidential candidates, with only 8% support.

"The same polls showed that the most popular candidate in Russia by a wide margin was the Communist Party’s Gennady Zyuganov.

"Moved to desperation by the numbers, well-connected Russian oligarchs suggested just cancelling the election and supporting a military takeover, rather than facing a defeat at the polls.

"Neocons in the West embraced the idea–all in the name of Democracy, of course.

"In the end, though, Yeltsin and the oligarchs decided to retain power by staging the election.

"In keeping with Russian laws at the time, Zyuganov spent less than three million dollars on his campaign.

"Estimates of Yeltsin’s spending, by contrast, range from $700 million to $2.5 billion. (David M. Kotz, Russia’s Path from Gorbachev to Putin, 2007)

"This was a clear violation of law, but it was just the tip of the iceberg."
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
Clinton arranged for a ten billion dollar IMF loan for Russia at a time when Yeltsin's share in the polls was 8%.

When you consider the amount of money Wall Street was making by bringing "Democracy to Russia", the most surprising aspect of US interference in '96 was how little Americans did to conceal their crimes
.

https://www.globalresearch.ca/us-meddling-in-1996-russian-elections-in-support-of-boris-yeltsin/5568288

"Readers will recall that in the run-up to the 1996 presidential election in Russia, opinion polls put the pro-western incumbent, Boris Yeltsin, in fifth place among the presidential candidates, with only 8% support.

"The same polls showed that the most popular candidate in Russia by a wide margin was the Communist Party’s Gennady Zyuganov.

"Moved to desperation by the numbers, well-connected Russian oligarchs suggested just cancelling the election and supporting a military takeover, rather than facing a defeat at the polls.

"Neocons in the West embraced the idea–all in the name of Democracy, of course.

"In the end, though, Yeltsin and the oligarchs decided to retain power by staging the election.

"In keeping with Russian laws at the time, Zyuganov spent less than three million dollars on his campaign.

"Estimates of Yeltsin’s spending, by contrast, range from $700 million to $2.5 billion. (David M. Kotz, Russia’s Path from Gorbachev to Putin, 2007)

"This was a clear violation of law, but it was just the tip of the iceberg."
The link shows one action by the US and that was persuading the IMF to do a loan to Russia. All else shows corruption within Yeltsin's crowd.

https://www.nytimes.com/1996/02/23/world/russia-and-imf-agree-on-a-loan-for-10.2-billion.html
 
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Mick

The Right is always right
He was an advisor to both the Kremlin and the Trump campaign at a time when the Russians were breaking US law and interfering in our election. That was probable cause.
He was an "advisor to the Kremlin"? You got a credible link to proof of such a claim? Yeah, didn't think so.

Second, even if he were an "advisor to the Kremlin" that in no way implicates him in doing anything illegal or attempting to sabotage the United States. Good lord, goof.

Third, there was NOT probable cause. Try reading the letter from the lead FISC judge. There was clearly no PC and that's now known beyond any doubt. That's why the phony dossier made up the bulk of the application and was "central and essential" to getting the warrant. It's also why they corruptly removed the CIA going to bat for Page in the application.

The court is not saying the original application was wrong. The two extensions were the ones the judge didn't think justified.
That's because they DIDN'T ASSESS the original application. Did you not read the letter from the judge? Subsequent applications will contain all the evidence of the original plus any more evidence that has been gleaned in the meantime. They will be by nature far more detailed. This is why they looked at the final two. If the subsequent applications couldn't stand up then the original was obviously bullshit as it was inherently less complex and damning.

Didn't we tell you to stop lying on this forum? You can't help yourself, can you? Pathetic.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
He was an "advisor to the Kremlin"? You got a credible link to proof of such a claim? Yeah, didn't think so.

Second, even if he were an "advisor to the Kremlin" that in no way implicates him in doing anything illegal or attempting to sabotage the United States. Good lord, goof.

Third, there was NOT probable cause. Try reading the letter from the lead FISC judge. There was clearly no PC and that's now known beyond any doubt. That's why the phony dossier made up the bulk of the application and was "central and essential" to getting the warrant. It's also why they corruptly removed the CIA going to bat for Page in the application.



That's because they DIDN'T ASSESS the original application. Did you not read the letter from the judge? Subsequent applications will contain all the evidence of the original plus any more evidence that has been gleaned in the meantime. They will be by nature far more detailed. This is why they looked at the final two. If the subsequent applications couldn't stand up then the original was obviously bullshit as it was inherently less complex and damning.

Didn't we tell you to stop lying on this forum? You can't help yourself, can you? Pathetic.
Ah, so you have an excuse for not finding the original application was without probable cause.

Carter Page Claimed He Was Adviser to Kremlin in 2013 Letter
http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2018/02/carter-page-claimed-he-was-adviser-to-kremlin-in-2013-letter.html

Whether or not you find Carter Page credible is not my problem.

Remember, the reason for the FISA warrant was that there was an investigation into illegal activities by Russian government actors which were intended to help Trump get elected. It was reasonable to look into whether or not Page was facilitating a conspiracy.
 
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