Woolleybugger
Mayor
True enough but the share I was talking about was a bit bigger than just getting by....isn't that the American Dream? Work hard, play fair and you can win the lottery of life because we are so exceptional?
Discussion: How does one get a share of the economic pie?
- Thread starter PhilFish
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MaryAnne
Governor
Each stage of a life may make you revise your goals.
Corruptbuddha
Governor
No, the American Dream is thew opportunity to work hard, play fair and a chance to win the lottery.
Outcomes are NOT guaranteed.
NightSwimmer
Senator
The topic of this thread asked how the outcome could be guaranteed, didn't it?
no. get a share. and increase one's share..
sure. and for those that may forego the effort.. they may not be equipped to attain that which theiy desire.. true?
Woolleybugger
Mayor
Guess you missed my point. No one is advocating equal outcomes, only equal opportunity. In today's version of capitalism, not only are conservatives denying the people to have equal opportunity, they are also doing everything they can to drive down wages and benefits for the hard working poor and middle class. The abdication of any responsibility by supporters of the Reagan Revolution for a system that drives all rewards to the very top is really quite sickening to me. Corker and the UAW is just a recent example of how the working man or woman has absolutely no place in their world. Fiscal policy has been solely one of providing political cover for tax cuts at the top by giving out crumbs for the rest of us. I have news for you, working hard should result in good wages. That is how the middle class was created. When every single thing you do is against the interests of the majority of working families, you are on the wrong side of history. Mouthing platitudes like work hard, play by the rules and take your measly paycheck and be glad you have a job is getting old.
MaryAnne
Governor
Yes,that is true. Many can over come the bad times,others can not. The difference in personality and drive have a lot to do with what a person can accomplish.
i wont strike it yet.. as i asked for apolitical..
but for sake of discussion...
what platitude...? there exists a system of education which all persons, to a point, are able to avail themselves of, to attain at least a minimum level of competence, said competence can be applied to the pursuit of additional skills and knowledge...or in the performance of work.
this whole crumbs line is bullshit. you want it...go get it. at the very least you may wind up in a better position than you are in now.
for example... if i'm a cashier and I dont like it cause the pay sucks. better that i not sit there and go 'man i'm stuck as a cashier' doomed for life. How about learn it....cruch it...and then become the best cashier in the joint and advance? or take all the knowledge you can and leave... pursue another path.
that's not a platitude.. it's done every day.
Corruptbuddha
Governor
I see nothing about any guarantee.
Corruptbuddha
Governor
Working hard DOES result in good wages. I see it every day. I've spent my whole life working hard and it has ALWAYS paid off.
Always.
connieb
Senator
I think sometimes people take a very literal definition of "working hard" and say - well that Janitor works hard - i.e. his job is physical and its difficult - so why does he get paid so crapily.
But, the idea of "hard work" is multifaceted. yes, in some cases it is actually doing the hard physical. But, I think when most people like you and me, use the term "hard work", it means more along the lines of more hours, working smarter, a better work ethic overall. It is simply not enough to show up to work fairly regularly and put out an acceptable amount of effort. THAT is not "hard work" even if the work itself is physical.
The "hard work" part comes in when you are the first guy on the job and the last to leave. When you are the go to guy, the one who gets things done. The one others can count on and depend on. You aren't grumbling about OT ( at least not to the boss), you work the OT - and you work it with a damn smile on your face. You don't say - gee, I can't get that project done by tomorrow - because I got my kid's soccer game. You call your wife and kid and make your promises to get it right the next time and finish the damn project because you know - that the next time they need something done they won't come to you, and if they won't come to you - its only a matter of time before they decide they don't need you. The "hard work" part comes in with the sleepless nights and all nighters you pull while getting your own business off the ground.
Maybe instead of "hard work" we should really be saying - sacrifice. Because what it amounts to is a gigantic sacrifice of time, energy and resources. When I say I worked hard to get where I am, I mean -I pass up parties and family get togethers to get projects done. I mean, I have lost friendships and relationships - over tax season hours. I mean, I have spent nights in the office so late that I ended up and going out and buying new clothes to change into so I wouldn't have to go home at all. I mean that I didn't go to parties in college - so I could work and get good grades. I didn't have more than two days off of work in a row in 10 years at one point. So, no, don't tell me you show up to work, punch your card, put your effort out, and go home to enjoy your family and your hobbies in the evenings and weekends, and tell me that you "work hard" and somehow deserve the same slice of the pie I have gotten for myself.
connie
Corruptbuddha
Governor
Move forward or die.
connieb
Senator
Exactly. I marvel that people aren't continuing thinking - what is my next step, where do I go from here, what do I have to do to get to that next step, what is my new goal? But, I think the vast majority never give it a thought.
Corruptbuddha
Governor
connieb
Senator
You can get used to anything. But, its so dangerous to let down your guard.
But, then I am amazed at the lack of preparation people do for your run of the mill life occurrences. We lost power in the ice storm a few weeks ago. DH trudged out to the garage, pulled out the generator, got it going..... and we had enough to run most of the house. Wasn't perfect, but good enough. We had neighbors come over and ask to plug in and invited friends and neighbors over to get some warm food, drinks and heat. But, you know it amazed me that in our neighborhood of some 200 houses..... when we drove around there were like 10 generators at the most, including ours. And, the people were getting desperate - leaving for hotels, calling emergency services.... like- for crying out pete look on craigslist and buy a generator for 5 or 600 bucks or a new one for 8 or 900 bucks. Its not like the majority of them can't afford it when they have luxury cars in their driveways, and fancy landscaping done every year, etc, or there isn't space to run one, or space to keep one or keep the gas. But, the power comes back on and they never think about it again.... until the next time. For god's sake - plan a little people!
connie
NightSwimmer
Senator
the way to the pie is be foreign or illegal, it seems:
Heh!
Were you capable of discerning irony, you'd have never posted this picture.
Woolleybugger
Mayor
Ever ask yourself why? I never did until I got a lot older. Then you ask yourself and it is damn hard to answer it the same way you did when you were 20, 30 or 40. As for your definition of hard work, many people get very rich not working any where near as hard as you think. For instance, say you had 10 million dollars and invested it in several start up companies. One hits big and you make 100 million on the IPO. Did you work hard for that 100 million? So now you are gambling, but that 10 million is mice nuts to you, you are worth 1 billion. Guy in engineering that created the product and "worked" hard, got a measly 100 grand out of it, no parachute, no employment contract, nada, zilch.
Or say you are on the board of a company, you meet once a quarter, get paid a stipend to attend board meetings that go like this: Fly in on company dime the night before, check into 5 star hotel, meals covered, average cost of meal 200 bucks a head, you have limo service to board meeting, board meeting lasts 3 hours, cocktails follow, next day you are back on a flight, first class. You get paid 40 grand a year to be on the board and 100,000 options. Did you work hard for that payday when it goes public and your cut is 10 million bucks? You were only on that board for 3 years...But the guy in shipping at that company worked his ass off for 35 grand a year just like you described and he got 20 grand out of it. Who worked hard and got paid again?
See how hard work is not exactly the same for everyone?
