New Posts
  • Hi there guest! Welcome to PoliticalJack.com. Register for free to join our community?

Do Republicans actually like poverty?

Arkady

President
Quick: when was the last time we had a Republican presidency that ended with lower poverty rates than it started with?

I'm pretty sure that not even the conservatives here would identify either Bush as the answer to that question. Poverty famously increased dramatically during each of their presidencies. But maybe you're tempted to guess Reagan. Nope, didn't happen. Ford? Uh uh. Turns out it was Nixon. Although poverty declined only a fifth as much on his watch as during the same length of time before he took office, it at least did decline.

So, what is the reason for this failure by Republican leadership to make headway against poverty, going back four decades? It's not like its a bipartisan failure -- poverty declined dramatically under Clinton and, despite inheriting the Great Recession, came down a bit under Obama, too. The usual answer would be that the Republican failure is a product of their vision of government, which limits their ability to cope with any problem that doesn't have laissez faire solutions. But what if poverty isn't a negative side effect of ineffectual policy tools, but rather a positive goal of their policies?

That may sound facetious, but it's not meant to be. It's about the "positional good." In some ways, wealth isn't best understood as an absolute thing, but a relative one.

Think of it this way: would you rather live like the owner of a big plantation in 1850, or like a lower-middle-class American today -- setting aside the moral issues of slavery? Well, in a lot of ways, the lower-middle-class person today is better off. He'll very likely live a longer and healthier life, since the kind of medical care that's a bare-minimum standard in the modern world would be unavailable at any price in 1850. He'll be able to dine on foods from all over the world, and to wear clothes manufactured with a robotic precision even greater tailors of earlier eras could meet. He will also have entertainment options that even the richest 19th century person would have trouble affording equivalents of. With a TV and Netflix account, you have the equivalent of having hundreds of theatrical troupes standing by to put on plays of your choosing, and with your mobile phone, you have the equivalent of a 19th century person walking around with a photographer, a team of musicians, a bunch of messengers, stenographers, and clerks, etc. Yet, despite that ABSOLUTE wealth, I think a lot of people would opt to be the plantation owner, moral considerations aside. Relative to the surrounding society, that person was very rich. He was respected and envied, and was be surrounded by dozens or hundreds of people subservient to him. That has emotional value for a lot of people.

The same concept works within modern America. There's a famous quotation, variously attributed, to the effect that "It is not enough to succeed; others must fail." I think there's a real undercurrent of that sentiment in our society that drives conservatism. Paul Krugman refers to it as "Republican Sadism":

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/11/opinion/dollars-cents-republican-sadism.html?rref=collection/column/paul-krugman&action=click&contentCollection=opinion&region=stream&module=stream_unit&version=latest&contentPlacement=1&pgtype=collection&mtrref=www.nytimes.com&assetType=opinion

"Making lower-income Americans worse off has become a goal in itself for the modern G.O.P., a goal the party is actually willing to spend money and increase deficits to achieve."​

Living a comfortable middle-class lifestyle will not taste as sweet for some people if they feel like others who don't deserve it are living almost as comfortably. If, on the other hand, things like basic medical care, decent education, etc., are not generally assured, then those things become luxury goods, and people who have them can bask in that luxury. So, some people would take the smaller absolute gains in quality of life we see under Republicans, in exchange for the larger RELATIVE gains (relative to "those people," who lose ground.) It's Schadenfreude as prime policy objective.
 

worldlymrb

Revenge
Democrats not only embrace poverty, but PROFIT from it as well. After all, if there was no poverty, then what need would there be of a govt mandate needing to be financed and written into law? OR....... God forbid if there's ever any positive results as that would be the fastlane to defunding.

Democrats claim their morality on the belief that more funding and people on food stamps is a success. Whereas liberal conservatives such as myself believe fewer people needing food stamps or govt assistance is a success and something we as a nation should always strive for.

download.png
 
Last edited:

Arkady

President
Democrats not only embrace poverty, but PROFIT from it as well.
Why is it, then, that they tend to preside over its decline? There were declines in poverty under FDR, Truman, Kennedy, Johnson, Clinton, and Obama -- often huge declines. Of all the Democratic presidential eras in the last century, the only one when poverty didn't decline was the shortest one: the Carter presidency. That's quite the contrast with all the recent Republican presidencies when poverty didn't decline (Bush, Bush, Reagan, and Ford.) If Democrats profit from poverty, why are they so focused on decreasing it (and generally fairly successful at doing so)?
 

worldlymrb

Revenge
Why is it, then, that they tend to preside over its decline?
Well, since you acknowledge America is on it's way to becoming a shithole too... Did it begin last year? 8 years ago? Exactly when did this tragic decline occur and why?

In fact, I acknowledge it was a republican president who is most responsible for kicking it off. and the date was August 15th, 1972.


However, let's not fool ourselves, the decline is bipartisan.

REF:

Bill Clinton defends repeal of Glass-Steagall | TheHill
thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing.../250838-bill-clinton-defends-repeal-of-glass-steagall
 
Last edited:

Dawg

President
Supporting Member
Why is it, then, that they tend to preside over its decline? There were declines in poverty under FDR, Truman, Kennedy, Johnson, Clinton, and Obama -- often huge declines. Of all the Democratic presidential eras in the last century, the only one when poverty didn't decline was the shortest one: the Carter presidency. That's quite the contrast with all the recent Republican presidencies when poverty didn't decline (Bush, Bush, Reagan, and Ford.) If Democrats profit from poverty, why are they so focused on decreasing it (and generally fairly successful at doing so)?
LBJ used Nixon's plan:

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/the-war-on-poverty-not-just-a-liberal-campaign
 

Dawg

President
Supporting Member

Arkady

President
Well, since you acknowledge America is on it's way to becoming a shithole too... Did it begin last year? 8 years ago? Exactly when did this tragic decline occur and why?

In fact, I acknowledge it was a republican president who is most responsible for kicking it off. and the date was August 15th, 1972.


However, let's not fool ourselves, the decline is bipartisan.

REF:

Bill Clinton defends repeal of Glass-Steagall | TheHill
thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing.../250838-bill-clinton-defends-repeal-of-glass-steagall
You don't appear to be willing to confront that, at least on paper, this isn't a bipartisan failing. Poverty fell dramatically on Clinton's watch. It fell on Obama's watch, too, as it did during every Democratic presidency in living memory other than Carter's.
 

Dawg

President
Supporting Member
You don't appear to be willing to confront that, at least on paper, this isn't a bipartisan failing. Poverty fell dramatically on Clinton's watch. It fell on Obama's watch, too, as it did during every Democratic presidency in living memory other than Carter's.
Dem/libs lust for Poverty to enslave their voters:

https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/how-decades-of-democratic-rule-ruined-some-of-our-finest-cities/

Anyone that claims Slick reduced poverty after upping CRA is lying to themselves:

 

Dawg

President
Supporting Member
I am sure if you were to post the top 10 cities with the lowest poverty levels they would be controlled by democrats too. It turns out democrats control most cities.
If that were true you'd have posted them...................

LMAO.....arkady tried..............to do what you can't do for yourself.......pappy figure!
 
Last edited:

Arkady

President
I am sure if you were to post the top 10 cities with the lowest poverty levels they would be controlled by democrats too. It turns out democrats control most cities.
Yep. Major US cities tend to be controlled by Democrats. That means pretty much any list of major US cities is going to tend to be dominated by Democrat-controlled cities. For example, if we were to list the major US cities by number of vowels in their names, I'd bet the top of that list would be dominated by Democratic-controlled cities.... and also if we listed major US cities by number of consonants in their names.

If we were to count minor cities, that might be a bit different, since minor cities will include places that are really just suburbs of major cities, and the economic well-being of such places has less to do with the policies in those places themselves, than they have to do with the economic policies in the neighboring big cities, plus the patterns of self-selection in settlement.
 

Arkady

President
If that were true you'd have posted them...................
Of the 25 biggest cities in the US, the ten with the lowest poverty rate are:

San Francisco
San Jose
Seattle
San Diego
Charlotte
Austin
Denver
Jacksonville
Nashville
Fort Worth

https://www.statista.com/statistics/205637/percentage-of-poor-people-in-the-top-20-most-populated-cities-in-the-us/

San Fran, which has the lowest poverty rate of the bunch, hasn't had a Republican mayor since January of 1964. San Jose has never had a Republican mayor. Seattle hasn't had a Republican mayor since 1952. San Diego has been going back and forth between Democrats and Republicans since the mid-1980s (five Democrats, four Republicans). Charlotte has had six straight Democratic mayors. Austin hasn't elected a Republican mayor since 1977 (and she became an independent). Denver hasn't had a Republican Mayor since 1963. Jacksonville had Democratic mayors every year from 1888 to 1995, but has mostly been Republican-led since then (other than 2011-2015). Nashville hasn't had a Republican mayor at least since 1963. Fort Worth has had a republican mayor since mid-2011, but from 1996 to 2011 had Democrats.

So, as you can see, that list of low-poverty big cities is dominated by cities that have been dominated by Democrats.
 

Dawg

President
Supporting Member
Of the 25 biggest cities in the US, the ten with the lowest poverty rate are:

San Francisco
San Jose
Seattle
San Diego
Charlotte
Austin
Denver
Jacksonville
Nashville
Fort Worth

https://www.statista.com/statistics/205637/percentage-of-poor-people-in-the-top-20-most-populated-cities-in-the-us/

San Fran, which has the lowest poverty rate of the bunch, hasn't had a Republican mayor since January of 1964. San Jose has never had a Republican mayor. Seattle hasn't had a Republican mayor since 1952. San Diego has been going back and forth between Democrats and Republicans since the mid-1980s (five Democrats, four Republicans). Charlotte has had six straight Democratic mayors. Austin hasn't elected a Republican mayor since 1977 (and she became an independent). Denver hasn't had a Republican Mayor since 1963. Jacksonville had Democratic mayors every year from 1888 to 1995, but has mostly been Republican-led since then (other than 2011-2015). Nashville hasn't had a Republican mayor at least since 1963. Fort Worth has had a republican mayor since mid-2011, but from 1996 to 2011 had Democrats.

So, as you can see, that list of low-poverty big cities is dominated by cities that have been dominated by Democrats.
So Boston not on the list even when you claim it's so much better than those posted:

NEW California may change that:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/new-california-declares-independence-from-rest-of-state/ar-AAuLdwL?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartandhp
 

worldlymrb

Revenge
You don't appear to be willing to confront that, at least on paper, this isn't a bipartisan failing. Poverty fell dramatically on Clinton's watch. It fell on Obama's watch, too, as it did during every Democratic presidency in living memory other than Carter's.
Welcome to reality.

REF:

Poverty Rose in 96% of US House Districts, During Obama's Presidency
www.washingtonsblog.com/.../poverty-rose-96-house-districts-obamas-presidency.ht...
Nov 5, 2016 - Findings such as those are consistent with, and might help to explain, the finding in the new Brookings study, that 96% of House districts have experienced increased poverty under Obama. The nation's poor have gotten political rhetoric, but not much else, and the middle class also have received no net ...
 

worldlymrb

Revenge
Welcome to reality.

REF:

Poverty Rose in 96% of US House Districts, During Obama's Presidency
www.washingtonsblog.com/.../poverty-rose-96-house-districts-obamas-presidency.ht...
Nov 5, 2016 - Findings such as those are consistent with, and might help to explain, the finding in the new Brookings study, that 96% of House districts have experienced increased poverty under Obama. The nation's poor have gotten political rhetoric, but not much else, and the middle class also have received no net ...
The only thing that rose economically during Obismo's presidency is the gap between rich and poor.

Worse than the Roaring Twenties: What even Thomas Piketty ... - Salon
https://www.salon.com/.../worse_than_the_roaring_twentiesa
Feb 2, 2016 - AlterNet A new paper by economist Lance Taylor for the Institute For New Economic Thinking takes on the way economists have looked at wealth and income inequality. Taylor's research challenges some conclusions about what's driving inequality made by Thomas Piketty and Joseph Stiglitz. What's really ...
 

Arkady

President
So Boston not on the list even when you claim it's so much better than those posted:
Boston has a quirk working against it in indicators like that. Because it's such an old city, the official city itself is ridiculously small -- just 48 square miles. Yet it long ago melted into surrounding cities that remain officially independent as historical anachronisms.

To put that in perspective, Houston clocks in at 600 square miles. Boston is surrounded by a bunch of other cities that, from within the city or from a satellite, you'd think were part of the same city, but technically there's a border there..... Cambridge, Somerville, Brookline, Charlestown, etc. Thus, when using municipal numbers, you're only looking at the inner city, whereas with many other major cities you're looking at the inner city, plus many of its suburbs -- or even surrounding rural areas, in the case of some cities (for example, Anchorage has a land area of 1707 miles, making it almost 36 times the size of Boston, geographically -- the "city" of Anchorage is so big it has its own glacier).

That's why the best way to calculate these things would be to use MSA's, rather than arbitrary lines on a map.
 

Dawg

President
Supporting Member
Boston has a quirk working against it in indicators like that. Because it's such an old city, the official city itself is ridiculously small -- just 48 square miles. Yet it long ago melted into surrounding cities that remain officially independent as historical anachronisms.

To put that in perspective, Houston clocks in at 600 square miles. Boston is surrounded by a bunch of other cities that, from within the city or from a satellite, you'd think were part of the same city, but technically there's a border there..... Cambridge, Somerville, Brookline, Charlestown, etc. Thus, when using municipal numbers, you're only looking at the inner city, whereas with many other major cities you're looking at the inner city, plus many of its suburbs -- or even surrounding rural areas, in the case of some cities (for example, Anchorage has a land area of 1707 miles, making it almost 36 times the size of Boston, geographically -- the "city" of Anchorage is so big it has its own glacier).

That's why the best way to calculate these things would be to use MSA's, rather than arbitrary lines on a map.
may be due to being known as a racist city
 
Top