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Do YOU want cheaper gas ????

degsme

Council Member
Mr. D,

You did not read what he said. He said exactly that, that he wants to tear down all American cities that aren't close to where job centers are, then stack people like cordwood around those job centers.
Um I read Wolley... show me where he siad that?
 

degsme

Council Member
I said "generally." Yes, other factors come into play and that is the reason for the "noise" in these two charts.
"noise" doesn't account for radically different slope lines. And they are radically differnt if you don't play games with the axis of the chart the way your source did.

Yes oil is a commodity, which is why Supply and Demand have such impacts - and not so much the strength of the dollar. In fact the low Price Elasticty of Demand of oil WRT the Dollar suggests a very weak linkage there.

Or are you suggesting that a central bank debasing its currency isn't going to lead to an increase in commodity inflation because that monetary policy supports your leftist, demand side economic theories?
huh? That sentence doesn't even parse rationally. Its another classic "mu question". Its "not even wrong".
 

ya-ta-hey

Mayor
Um I read Wolley... show me where he siad that?
Mr. D,

"The reason we need gas is because we don't live near our jobs...move us to the jobs and the gas issue goes away."

No, don't thank me, you were probably just reading what you wanted to read. I'm just glad I could help.
 

degsme

Council Member
Mr. D,

"The reason we need gas is because we don't live near our jobs...move us to the jobs and the gas issue goes away."

No, don't thank me, you were probably just reading what you wanted to read. I'm just glad I could help.
And this has to do with intercity distances how?
 

Lukey

Senator
"noise" doesn't account for radically different slope lines. And they are radically differnt if you don't play games with the axis of the chart the way your source did.

Yes oil is a commodity, which is why Supply and Demand have such impacts - and not so much the strength of the dollar. In fact the low Price Elasticty of Demand of oil WRT the Dollar suggests a very weak linkage there.



huh? That sentence doesn't even parse rationally. Its another classic "mu question". Its "not even wrong".
Stop all the obfuscating - does dollar debasement tend to cause a rise in the cost of dollar denominated commodities or not? I mean, the idea that it doesn't doesn't pass the laugh test. But please, enlighten us...
 

Lukey

Senator
It can - depends on the Price Elasticity of demand of the commodity.
What does, the amount of the rise or whether or not there is a rise? And, what, pray tell is the PED of oil? How much (if any) of the increase in the price of oil in the past three years would you say is due to dollar debasement as the Fed has furiously injected dollar liquidity to keep the economy afloat?
 

PhilFish

Administrator
Staff member
however, gasoline is by and large inelastic (i.e there is no substitute...) so by and large people adjust..and learn to grin and bear it.... or move to a more efficent model....model of car that is. given the economy that isnt readily attainable.... so...grin and bear. and earnings increase in kind...

whis was what gasoline taxes were predicated upon, no?
 

degsme

Council Member
What does, the amount of the rise or whether or not there is a rise?
If you know what PEoD means, the answer to that is "yes - depends on the PEoD"...

And lets try this - what is the PEoD of Oil? Remember you are the one claiming a 1:1 tracking in your charts.
 

degsme

Council Member
however, gasoline is by and large inelastic (i.e there is no substitute...) so by and large people adjust..and learn to grin and bear it
Yup... that's true. But Lukey posted charts that obscured a whole lot of actually relevant information.
 

PhilFish

Administrator
Staff member
may well be..i'llleave that to you guys.. point being...high will remain until the existing system is altered... i.e. increase capacity/output... until then speculation / manipulation will maintain it's effect.
 

degsme

Council Member
may well be..i'llleave that to you guys.. point being...high will remain until the existing system is altered... i.e. increase capacity/output... until then speculation / manipulation will maintain it's effect.
Manipulation and speculation are two different things.

As for Capacity - we are past Peak Oil. We CANNOT increase Capacity/Output in a meaningful way. That's just the reality of it. There just aren't enough easily accessible reserves. And opeing up US Offshore for drilling does NOTHING to change the number of Deepwater rigs that are out there. Which means you are simply moving production around from one place to another. That's not an INCREASE.

OK so you open ANWR. it comes on line with production peaking IN TEN YEARS... given consumption growth curves, by the time it is online, demand has eaten up all of the growth there.

Again, NO APPRECIABLE GAIN...

That's the point of Peak Oil. The time and CAPITAL Cost of developing new resources means we basically are going to start lagging behind demand until we change energy sources. Its as simple as that.
 

Lukey

Senator
If you know what PEoD means, the answer to that is "yes - depends on the PEoD"...

And lets try this - what is the PEoD of Oil? Remember you are the one claiming a 1:1 tracking in your charts.
Link to where I claimed 1 to 1 tracking. I claimed correlation and proved it. I conceded to your claim that other factors were at work but then, my original post only said "generally." As for your silly "PEoD" get the heck out of here - I've seen you use PED in your posts before as an abbreviation for Price Elasticity of Demand, so don't act like you are "correcting" me on the "acceptable" acronym. And I asked you first. My guess is it's pretty inelastic.
 

PhilFish

Administrator
Staff member
yes..which is why they are separate...

unless and if..you build more rigs.

and, given growth curves...the trajectory as to cost is only going to steepen in those intervening 10 years...
 

degsme

Council Member
yes..which is why they are separate...

unless and if..you build more rigs.

and, given growth curves...the trajectory as to cost is only going to steepen in those intervening 10 years...
Takes about 3-5 years to build a new rig. And the facilities for doing so are pretty much running at full bore.

AGain, read up on Peak Oil The reality is that we simply can no longer catch up. So it makes more sense to agressively diversify energy sources and save domestic production for when the price-performance curve is much higher. Rather than consuming it now and relying on even more critical resource extortion from hostile regimes 10-20 years from now.
 

PhilFish

Administrator
Staff member
how much higher does the curve need to be to justify?

as far as diversification..how many years have we been on that path vs progress made?
 

gabriel

Governor
and youre falling further behind every day. but its just one component in your slide from being the most innovative nation.
 
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