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Fast Food Joint

ya-ta-hey

Mayor
Claptrap.

For example, my nephew has a degree in economics. He has plenty of accounting classes and began as an estimator for a business. A degree in economics covers many of the areas you mention and there are different types and disciplines within economics study.
Mr. Craig,

How is the one rare example of one person you know in any way representitive of the that career path.

Give you a clue, it's not.
 

Craig

Senator
Supporting Member
LOL, you're kidding, right? Double wages, not increase prices, that will bring in another $3B in annual revenue? Plus, it will cause unicorns to shit gum drops and moon beams as they fly through the drive through.

Oh, man, you liberals are so funny some times.
You won't like this either...


...The capitalists charge the absolute maximum they can get away with, that ability being limited by the competition that comes from alternative suppliers.

Thus the price is not determined by the cost of production of an item. Which means that, if we raise McDonald’s production costs by increasing the wages of the workers, the price isn’t going to change. For it’s not production costs that determine prices: it’s competition that does. Another way to put this is that McDonald’s is already charging us the absolute maximum that it can for its current level of sales. Thus it cannot raise its prices if its production costs go up.

All of which means that the real change in the cost of a Big Mac, or the dollar menu, if McDonald’s workers were paid $15 an hour is: nothing.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2013/08/02/the-real-change-in-the-cost-of-a-big-mac-if-mcdonalds-workers-were-paid-15-an-hour-nothing/
 

Craig

Senator
Supporting Member
Mr. Craig,

How is the one rare example of one person you know in any way representitive of the that career path.

Give you a clue, it's not.
Why yes, it is a "clue". Not to mention, not every single person with an economics degree pursues the field. As an academic degree, many businesspeople have economics degrees for their BS and then get their MBA, for example. Other will go for analyst positions in private companies.
 

ya-ta-hey

Mayor
You won't like this either...


...The capitalists charge the absolute maximum they can get away with, that ability being limited by the competition that comes from alternative suppliers.

Thus the price is not determined by the cost of production of an item. Which means that, if we raise McDonald’s production costs by increasing the wages of the workers, the price isn’t going to change. For it’s not production costs that determine prices: it’s competition that does. Another way to put this is that McDonald’s is already charging us the absolute maximum that it can for its current level of sales. Thus it cannot raise its prices if its production costs go up.

All of which means that the real change in the cost of a Big Mac, or the dollar menu, if McDonald’s workers were paid $15 an hour is: nothing.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2013/08/02/the-real-change-in-the-cost-of-a-big-mac-if-mcdonalds-workers-were-paid-15-an-hour-nothing/
Mr. Craig,

You liberals are so silly. Labor represents the greatest risk in a company's business plan. Nothing else in your balance sheet can be modified. Operating costs, materials, insurance, overhead, rents, vender supplies, etc., are all fixed. If you raise labor costs, you can't take it from some other line item. The only thing that you can do is either raise prices hoping to keep a market share, or decrease margins. If you decrease margins, your return on investment would make it unwise to remain in business.

Your pie in the sky scenario says that if you put more money in the hands of the workers, they could more afford to buy your product. The flaw in this is that McDonalds already offers a more affordable product, so the increase in salery, if anything, would provide only a marginal, if not negligable increase in sales.

Sorry, dude, but it's a basic fact of life, you cannot increase sales by increasing costs. You can only increase sales by decreasing prices, all other factors being the same.
 

ya-ta-hey

Mayor
Why yes, it is a "clue". Not to mention, not every single person with an economics degree pursues the field. As an academic degree, many businesspeople have economics degrees for their BS and then get their MBA, for example. Other will go for analyst positions in private companies.
Mr. Craig,

Sorry, I didn't know you interviewed each and every economist and each and every businessman that has ever practiced in their field. Wait, you didn't? Oh, you were just talking out of your ass.
 

Craig

Senator
Supporting Member
Mr. Craig,

Sorry, I didn't know you interviewed each and every economist and each and every businessman that has ever practiced in their field. Wait, you didn't? Oh, you were just talking out of your ass.
Gee...I didn't know you interviewed every economist and businessman either, but you seem to be able to speak for them.

Actually, I just gave one example. You've given zero.
 

ya-ta-hey

Mayor
Gee...I didn't know you interviewed every economist and businessman either, but you seem to be able to speak for them.

Actually, I just gave one example. You've given zero.
Mr. Craig,

I know that anadotal examples are meaningless.

However, unlike you, I looked at the curricula for an economics degree. No marketing, accounting, nor business courses required.

Sorry to ruin your self rightous indignation.
 

MaryAnne

Governor
Mr. Craig,

You liberals are so silly. Labor represents the greatest risk in a company's business plan. Nothing else in your balance sheet can be modified. Operating costs, materials, insurance, overhead, rents, vender supplies, etc., are all fixed. If you raise labor costs, you can't take it from some other line item. The only thing that you can do is either raise prices hoping to keep a market share, or decrease margins. If you decrease margins, your return on investment would make it unwise to remain in business.

Your pie in the sky scenario says that if you put more money in the hands of the workers, they could more afford to buy your product. The flaw in this is that McDonalds already offers a more affordable product, so the increase in salery, if anything, would provide only a marginal, if not negligable increase in sales.

Sorry, dude, but it's a basic fact of life, you cannot increase sales by increasing costs. You can only increase sales by decreasing prices, all other factors being the same.

There is no pie in the sky with paying decent wages so Employees have money to spend!

For Heavens sake yatahey, even Henry Ford had enough sense to know he had to pay his Employees enough so they could afford to buy his cars.

My Grandfather was promised a life time job when Henry Ford bought the DT&I railroad to haul his cars if he would come back to work. He was laid off before Henry bought the RR.

Henry knew he needed good, loyal workers. My Grandfather worked 50 years.

That is something that is lacking in Industry today.

My Son worked at McDonalds while in High School. He made sure he would never go back. Ray Krok did treat his Employees fair,but he is long gone.
 
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Craig

Senator
Supporting Member
Mr. Craig,

I know that anadotal examples are meaningless.

However, unlike you, I looked at the curricula for an economics degree. No marketing, accounting, nor business courses required.

Sorry to ruin your self rightous indignation.
I looked...and principles of Accounting is on AU's list. Anecdotal examples serve to indicate how life actually works.
 

oicu812

"Trust, but Verify"
Five cents. The approximate price increase of a Big Mac...if minimum wage is increased to $10.50 per hour, about the current minimum in San Francisco.



...These corporations could pay workers more. But they are happy on the dole. There’s plenty of evidence that it’s possible to increase wages. For one thing, they already pay more in some places, like San Francisco, where the minimum wage is $10.55 and in Washington State, where it’s $9.19. In France, McDonald’s pays the equivalent of $12 at 1,200 thriving franchises.

In June, more than 100 economists signed a petition to raise the minimum wage to $10.50.In an attached report, they note that McDonald’s could cover half of the cost of that wage increase by raising the price of a Big Mac by one nickel. Mickey D patrons would still be “lovin’ it” at $4.05.

Here’s another telling example: McDonald’s spent $6 billion to repurchase shares and dividends in 2011—the equivalent of $3,500 for each of its 1.7 million restaurant workers worldwide. The Hamburglar gave all of the money to stockholders and none of it to the people whose labor produced the profits...


http://inthesetimes.com/article/15455/supersize_those_wages_mcdonalds/
do you think that areas in which the cost of living is less, pay employees less?
 

ya-ta-hey

Mayor
I looked...and principles of Accounting is on AU's list. Anecdotal examples serve to indicate how life actually works.
Mr. Craig,

Then you know that an Economic degree involves no practical accounting, marketing, nor business courses.

I accept your acknowledgement that I am right.

And sorry, no, anecdotal examples serve to indicate a narrow view of the limited sample that they are derived from. Like I said, meaningless.
 

ya-ta-hey

Mayor
There is no pie in the sky with paying decent wages so Employees have money to spend!

For Heaven sake yatahey, even Henry Ford had enough sense to know he had to pay his Employees enough so they could afford to buy his cars.

My Grandfather was promised a life time job when Henry Ford bought the DT&I railroad to haul his cars if he would come back to work. He was laid off before Henry bought the RR.

Henry knew he needed good, loyal workers. My Grandfather worked 50 years.

That is something that is lacking in Industry today.

My Son worked at McDonalds while in High School. He made sure he would never go back. Ray Krok did treat his Employees fair,but he is long gone.
Ms. Maryanne,

Sory, no, you fall for the socialist line, when the reality, Ford's decision to pay his workers $5/day was purely a business decision to reduce turnover.

"At the time, workers could count on about $2.25 per day, for which they worked nine-hour shifts. It was pretty good money in those days, but the toll was too much for many to bear. Ford’s turnover rate was very high. In 1913, Ford hired more than 52,000 men to keep a workforce of only 14,000. New workers required a costly break-in period, making matters worse for the company. Also, some men simply walked away from the line to quit and look for a job elsewhere. Then the line stopped and production of cars halted. The increased cost and delayed production kept Ford from selling his cars at the low price he wanted. Drastic measures were necessary if he was to keep up this production."

The same is not true for McDonalds. It's good that your son worked for McDonalds when he was in high school. That's what McDonalds is for, but it your expecting it to be a career, and you are not on the management track, you got bigger problems than getting a buck more an hours.
 

Craig

Senator
Supporting Member
Mr. Craig,

Then you know that an Economic degree involves no practical accounting, marketing, nor business courses.

I accept your acknowledgement that I am right.

And sorry, no, anecdotal examples serve to indicate a narrow view of the limited sample that they are derived from. Like I said, meaningless.
And I know it doesn't matter in regard knowing how to run a business. How to...is an academic and/or practical consideration. Knowing how in no way indicates the ability to successfully do so.

I know a businessman with a degree in Theology. I know a businessman with a degree in English. I know an economics major who helps run a giant international business. In the first cases, these are entrepreneurs who learned how through experience. In the last, well, you've already conveniently discounted such experience.
 

fairsheet

Senator
McDonald's is in direct competition with the likes of Burger King and Wendy's. Therefore, they can't unilaterally raise their levels of compensation. In order for them to do so, they would have come up with a marketing scheme that emphasizes the addtional value in their product, by dint of their paying their employees more.

Being the biggest, I don't know if McDonald's would be the right one to pull this off. I think it would need to be one of their smaller competitors. They could run an ad campaign as to how they pay their employees a living wage, show vignettes of their employee's happy family lives, and suggest that whatever few pennies more their customers may pay, this is what they're supporting.
 

ya-ta-hey

Mayor
And I know it doesn't matter in regard knowing how to run a business. How to...is an academic and/or practical consideration. Knowing how in no way indicates the ability to successfully do so.

I know a businessman with a degree in Theology. I know a businessman with a degree in English. I know an economics major who helps run a giant international business. In the first cases, these are entrepreneurs who learned how through experience. In the last, well, you've already conveniently discounted such experience.
Mr. Craig,

How is the fact that you know one or two persons who are in the rare position to run a business without any prior business experience add anything to this argument, except to point out you have no argument?
 
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