Finally seeing the effects of trump!

[Constitutional Sheepdog]

Care to elaborate?

Union wages is why any cost would ba cause.

 

[ObamacareForever]

Union wages is why any cost would ba cause.

So you agree American steel is more expensive. Which is raises the costs to produce autos, which will raise the price, which leads to decreased auto sales which will lead to layoffs first in the auto industry, then followed by layoffs in the steel industry because they don't need steel to make autos. Which is why tariffs are dumb.

 

[justoffal]

I live in Kentucky, we have 2 major Ford Plants, 1 Toyota plant, and 1 Corvette plant. None of them failed. There are about 95,000 people working in the auto industry in my state. There are about 500 other manufacturing facilities in state in their supply chains. The steel tariffs are going to absolutely demolish the auto industry in my state.
And that's even before the retaliatory tariffs. Whiskey is another huge export from my state. The retaliatory tariffs are all aimed at whiskey, which will again destroy my a huge industry in my state. Kentucky is huge loser in Trump's dumbass trade war.

I don't need to tell you who owns Toyota do I?....though admittedly they have become a genuine American industry at this point they were one of the main reasons that Detroit died. General Motors Failed....died....went four paws up...some of that was due to lousy business management but most of it was due to the invasion of off shore business interests.

I don't pretend to claim that total protectionism is good either but you cannot allow players to the table who go by different rules nor can anyone afford to slight their own home grown industries in favor of a foreign industry without harming indigenous employees. I give you the garment industry and the paper industry for examples of how hundreds of thousands of American jobs were simply snatched up and vanished away to cheaper labor ports.

Ultimately I agree that an open trade policy will eventually produce the greatest measure of prosperity.....but you can only have that for as long as people and nations play fair. For a long time now...the US has been a patsy in this game. Time to rectify that.

 

[justoffal]

American Steel will drive up the cost of the cars, which will make them more expensive, which means less people will buy them, which mean people in the auto industry will get laid off.
Now please tell me why you value steel workers jobs more than auto workers?

As soon as you tell my why the reverse is true.

Like I said above....nobody likes it when reality comes home....it's another form of NIMBYISM.

 

[justoffal]

So you agree American steel is more expensive. Which is raises the costs to produce autos, which will raise the price, which leads to decreased auto sales which will lead to layoffs first in the auto industry, then followed by layoffs in the steel industry because they don't need steel to make autos. Which is why tariffs are dumb.

Either you believe in Keynes or you don't.....your scenario with Tariffs always causing a business loss is not quite accurate. There is a need that people have and they will fulfill it regardless of how expensive it is....Transportation. Aggregate demand ...the question is who is going to fill that demand? You Rob Peter to pay Paul.....you'll get no objection from Paul.

JO

 

[ObamacareForever]

I don't pretend to claim that total protectionism is good either but you cannot allow players to the table who go by different rules nor can anyone afford to slight their own home grown industries in favor of a foreign industry without harming indigenous employees.

Free trade does not favor anyone. Tariffs harm consumers which represent a larger constituency than any industry.

I give you the garment industry and the paper industry for examples of how hundreds of thousands of American jobs were simply snatched up and vanished away to cheaper labor ports.

So why is paying higher prices for garments or paper good for any economy? The damage to consumers outweighs the help it provides a small amount of very specific workers.

 

[justoffal]

Free trade does not favor anyone. Tariffs harm consumers which represent a larger constituency than any industry.

So why is paying higher prices for garments or paper good for any economy? The damage to consumers outweighs the help it provides a small amount of very specific workers.

I have some sympathy for your position ...trust me....but the reality is this...stuff costs.
Ultimately it boils down to the original currency...man hours. When you buy at Walmart the cycle is long and protracted and hidden from our sight. Ultimately you're not paying for those goods with money...you're paying for them with your job. Do I buy there? Yes.

JO

 

[justoffal]

Free trade does not favor anyone. Tariffs harm consumers which represent a larger constituency than any industry.

So why is paying higher prices for garments or paper good for any economy? The damage to consumers outweighs the help it provides a small amount of very specific workers.

Free trade cannot be quantified...

There's no way to place a value on the man hour here in North America and then try to equate it to a man hour in South Viet-nam. Good luck....

There has to be some kind of accounting .... actually there always is even if it's not done by humans. The money system itself will produce effects that can be read. I would still rather see NO TARIFFS at all....but that goes for BOTH. It can't be unilateral and up till now it pretty much has been.


JO

 

[ObamacareForever]

Either you believe in Keynes or you don't.....your scenario with Tariffs always causing a business loss is not quite accurate. There is a need that people have and they will fulfill it regardless of how expensive it is....Transportation. Aggregate demand ...the question is who is going to fill that demand? You Rob Peter to pay Paul.....you'll get no objection from Paul.

JO

Price elasticity is a factor, but cars are not completely inelastic. Used Cars are a decent replacement option for new cars. Used cars already in the US aren't subjected to the taridds. The auto industry and steel industry don't make any money from people buying used cars.

 

[PhilFish]

What does that have to do with the Trumpers glee over rising prices on everything??

What everything? This dude was discussing pallets and blaming trump and tarriffs for the increased cost.

Thereafter facts came in to play and the notion was properly framed as, tariffs in part...but principally due to demand, global factirs, etc....

But hey, fact can be challenging

 

[ObamacareForever]

I would still rather see NO TARIFFS at all....but that goes for BOTH.
JO

Can you point to something specific?

 

[Montecresto]

No...somebody who knows even a smidgen about economics would not panic until they know why the prices were higher...that simple... If the buyer is foolish enough to take that without shopping around...I say it's time to get another purchasing agent in there who is a bit more pro-active. Business is not a play ground for socialists. It's business. Doubt what I say? Then read this.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/beltway/2018/05/09/seattles-misguided-tax-on-large-and-mid-sized-companies/#2fc3afd239c6


Nobody likes to see a price go up....gas for insistence in is a pain in the ass.....but if you work for Exxon Mobil....it means that your savings and stock holdings expand like a Kudzu plant.

Lmfao. Let fox business explain

Trump’s steel tariffs causing unintended consequences for manufacturers

https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/trumps-steel-tariffs-causing-unintended-consequences-for-manufacturers

 

[Montecresto]

What everything?

Trump’s steel tariffs causing unintended consequences for manufacturers

https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/lumber-trade-war-slaughtering-us-construction-industry

Lumber trade war slaughtering US construction industry


For Americans, Trump's tariffs on imports could be costly

https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/trumps-steel-tariffs-causing-unintended-consequences-for-manufacturers


Trump’s steel tariffs causing unintended consequences for manufacturers

 

[Montecresto]

That everything!!!!

 

[Dawg]

Sure we could pay another $3 on top of yesterdays $3 raise in prices for the pallets to buy US lumber, but that doesn't make much sense does it. As I stated in the OP, it's just the tip of the iceberg. We just put on a $90 million dollar expansion.

We are going to put on another expansion that would have costed $280-$300 million last year. What will that cost us now? At even a 20% increase that's a hell of a lot of money. I'd like to see what the cost of our cardboard is going to be as well, from $70,000.

And no, we hire no illegals. Everyone employed is DHS certified, they have to be per the regulations put in place after 9/11. We have lost 9 farms, between 350 head to 800 head of cattle each, since March. Looks like that trend will continue.

"We" got a mouse in ya pocket?

 

[Dawg]

Yes. And demand, and there's a glut, and mortgage rates are up so people renting more, etc...

libs never post of cost of Permits........
You must buy a Permit to buy a Permit......
which adds $1000's to cost of new homes........

I had 35,000 board feet of lumber hacked up over in pasture cut on the farm and wanted to build a Cabin.......was told I couldn't buld Cabin with it because it wasn't STAMPED LUMBER......lil prick in gov office said it wouldn't last......

I informed him Dad's home was built before Civil War and raised so much hell he finally allowed me a permit.........

We stopped logging Pine months back due to low pay.........so where's all this expensive Lumber for Tree Owners........

 

[Dawg]

Well no you're not being entirely truthful and the articles that I've shared thus far have Illustrated that. Principally there's a glut and if you desire to be truthful a rise in prices due to rising global demand. Add to it the population isn't growing to meet the demand...well..there you have it

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/global-trade-of-softwood-lumber-reached-a-record-high-in-2017-as-demand-for-wood-continued-to-increase-in-the-us-china-and-europe---wood-resource-quarterly-300618838.htm

well, if FOX reported it Bugs thinks it's gospel

 

[Dawg]

American Steel will drive up the cost of the cars, which will make them more expensive, which means less people will buy them, which mean people in the auto industry will get laid off.
Now please tell me why you value steel workers jobs more than auto workers?

IMO....a 30ish year old that will not buy a home for his family and still lives at home, isn't buying new automobiles either..........

 

[Dawg]

So you agree American steel is more expensive. Which is raises the costs to produce autos, which will raise the price, which leads to decreased auto sales which will lead to layoffs first in the auto industry, then followed by layoffs in the steel industry because they don't need steel to make autos. Which is why tariffs are dumb.

American steel not used in bridges that are collapsing
buy cheap shit watch it fall

 

[Dawg]

I don't need to tell you who owns Toyota do I?....though admittedly they have become a genuine American industry at this point they were one of the main reasons that Detroit died. General Motors Failed....died....went four paws up...some of that was due to lousy business management but most of it was due to the invasion of off shore business interests.

I don't pretend to claim that total protectionism is good either but you cannot allow players to the table who go by different rules nor can anyone afford to slight their own home grown industries in favor of a foreign industry without harming indigenous employees. I give you the garment industry and the paper industry for examples of how hundreds of thousands of American jobs were simply snatched up and vanished away to cheaper labor ports.

Ultimately I agree that an open trade policy will eventually produce the greatest measure of prosperity.....but you can only have that for as long as people and nations play fair. For a long time now...the US has been a patsy in this game. Time to rectify that.

OCF evidently forgets O allowed GMC to NOT repays $Millions or was it $Billions he gave them and FORD didn't get a DIME from taxpayers........wonder if Toyota got any taxpayers money........One thing I do know about a Chevrolet......you can lay in bed and hear if Rust....same for older model Toyota's.........

Chinese have bought the majority of PORK producers......kill the hogs here, shipped to China and processed and shipped back..........Trumps tariffs on China fixing to back BACON/PORK cheap......real cheap........time to buy second upright freezer..........