Poseidon Atlantis
Mayor
Oh yes of little faith .....
France's state of emergency has lasted 2 1/2 months
- Thread starter EatTheRich
- Start date
Queen Titania
Senator
Your town is full of foreign students - here, where I live, is the back of beyond - but they can plonk an estate anywhere they choose at any time they choose.
Queen Titania
Senator
Oh yes of little faith .....
I am beginning to hear better arguments but Obama and other fear mongers will make a difference to the very large unsure vote - the unsure will always vote for the devil they know - my heart has been broken enough times by the uninformed masses - I, for once, am not optimistic.
Oh for Gods sake - on Question Time on Radio 4 - they have a Yank on apologizing for Obama!
I wonder - since Obama is the Drone Emperor will people be more likely to vote agin just because he says we shall be at the back of the queue in TTIP?
How dare he tell us we should not have Home Rule!
Poseidon Atlantis
Mayor
So the reason that we should stay in the EU is TTIP ?
TTIP is one of the main arguments to leave if you were to ask me !
Queen Titania
Senator
Yes, that is what Obama was talking about, TTIP, and why he doesn't want us to leave ---- of course it is!
Our food will be poisoned ---
EatTheRich
President
Supposing that were true (and it is not; the work force is still overwhelmingly Anglo-Saxon), it's not that immigrants don't want unions. Often, in fact, they come from places with strong union traditions and can introduce new methods of struggle. It's that systemic discrimination against migrants makes it harder to establish unions.
"No go areas" are a debunked myth.
EatTheRich
President
Unless you're a banker, the Bank of England isn't yours, and it won't be if 'your' country leaves the EU either.
Queen Titania
Senator
Come here and tell the Unions that EatTheRich. They want OUT btw ---- Which no go areas are a myth?
Queen Titania
Senator
The EU wanted us to give it up and hand it over to the EU recently ---- I wonder why?
You know perfectly well what I think of Bankers but the Bank of England does give us a strength many other EU member s do not have.
Poseidon Atlantis
Mayor
Something more that is pro leave :-
http://www.democraticleftnetwork.com/#!Leftwing-euroscepticism-a-condensed-primer/il2i0/5702776b0cf27cb8ad18ea89
Queen Titania
Senator
Poseidon Atlantis
Mayor
On the other hand there are points for remaining :-
Don't think leaving the EU will give some kind of freedom. You haven't looked at the people carrying those "taking back control" banners; Gove, Farage, Johnson. For some reason you think those guys have your best interests at heart? That they like alternative ideas? Or will allow you access to the truth? A free press? the UK is ranked 38th in the 2016 World Press Freedom Index? (Costa Rica, Ghana, Tonga and Uruguay all have a more independent media than the UK). That's how much our governing classes love freedom. They love their freedom (regulation-free) but not ours.
When they say "take back control", they mean; take control from Europe and give it all to them. The likes of Gove and Johnson and Rupert Murdoch. Journalist Anthony Hilton once asked Rupert Murdoch why he was so opposed to the European Union. 'That’s easy,' he replied. 'When I go into Downing Street they do what I say; when I go to Brussels they take no notice."
Maybe the likes of Murdoch and Gove and Johnson and Farage want out of the EU because the EU has been the institution that has done most to give workers rights of employment. Many of the benefits and protections British people have at work are thanks to EU regulations, and there's zero chance the Tories would make maintaining those rights a priority in the event of #Brexit (see http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/feb/25/workers-rights-are-on-the-line-in-eu-referendum-warns-tuc).
You need to know this; Murdoch wants more power and influence and the EU is standing in his way, Farage wants to privatise the NHS, even Cameron realised Gove was making a complete mess of being Education Secretary so sacked him; and Boris Johnson hates you.
The EU isn't perfect, far from it. But do you know what status Gove said the UK would have if we were outside the EU? He said we would be like Albania. He seemed to think that was a good thing (see http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-britain-will-act-like-bosnia-and-ukraine-in-event-of-brexit-says-michael-gove-a6991711.html).
I know some people who live in, say Burnley, are brought up to believe that people living the other side of the hill, like, say in Blackburn, are somehow their mortal enemies. I wasn't brought up like that. I was brought up to believe our similarities are greater than our differences, that our common humanity is something to be embraced. The idea of retreating into an enclave, away from Europe, away from the world, disturbs me. We should be connecting to the world, building bridges and alliances .
, I like being European. However Europe is just a geographical term .
Don't think leaving the EU will give some kind of freedom. You haven't looked at the people carrying those "taking back control" banners; Gove, Farage, Johnson. For some reason you think those guys have your best interests at heart? That they like alternative ideas? Or will allow you access to the truth? A free press? the UK is ranked 38th in the 2016 World Press Freedom Index? (Costa Rica, Ghana, Tonga and Uruguay all have a more independent media than the UK). That's how much our governing classes love freedom. They love their freedom (regulation-free) but not ours.
When they say "take back control", they mean; take control from Europe and give it all to them. The likes of Gove and Johnson and Rupert Murdoch. Journalist Anthony Hilton once asked Rupert Murdoch why he was so opposed to the European Union. 'That’s easy,' he replied. 'When I go into Downing Street they do what I say; when I go to Brussels they take no notice."
Maybe the likes of Murdoch and Gove and Johnson and Farage want out of the EU because the EU has been the institution that has done most to give workers rights of employment. Many of the benefits and protections British people have at work are thanks to EU regulations, and there's zero chance the Tories would make maintaining those rights a priority in the event of #Brexit (see http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/feb/25/workers-rights-are-on-the-line-in-eu-referendum-warns-tuc).
You need to know this; Murdoch wants more power and influence and the EU is standing in his way, Farage wants to privatise the NHS, even Cameron realised Gove was making a complete mess of being Education Secretary so sacked him; and Boris Johnson hates you.
The EU isn't perfect, far from it. But do you know what status Gove said the UK would have if we were outside the EU? He said we would be like Albania. He seemed to think that was a good thing (see http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-britain-will-act-like-bosnia-and-ukraine-in-event-of-brexit-says-michael-gove-a6991711.html).
I know some people who live in, say Burnley, are brought up to believe that people living the other side of the hill, like, say in Blackburn, are somehow their mortal enemies. I wasn't brought up like that. I was brought up to believe our similarities are greater than our differences, that our common humanity is something to be embraced. The idea of retreating into an enclave, away from Europe, away from the world, disturbs me. We should be connecting to the world, building bridges and alliances .
, I like being European. However Europe is just a geographical term .
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Queen Titania
Senator
HUH?
Poseidon Atlantis
Mayor
Oops ! premature post , now much altered .
Like I have posted before o keep swinging between both leave and stay .
Many of your, and Obamas push me towards the leave side .
My concerns about leaving are becoming less anchored admittedly , still pondering
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Queen Titania
Senator
No I mean huh? What on earth are you talking about?
Who gave workers more rights? Would we have been caste in 1970's stone if we hadn't entered the EU in order to save our Industries? (How did that work out?) We never had a Bill of Rights or anything like that, did we? No, no we were total barbarians who would never never ever progressed! Good God when adopting the EUCHR we had to change little since we already had most of the Human Rights adopted by the EU in our laws.
This is more honest, she gets on my nerves a bit, this woman but here she is being honest --- for the comfortably off the EU is great but does less than nothing for those who are not well off apart from lowering their standard of living. What the EU has done for workers rights is put them out of work or on terribly low wages ---- get real!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/23/why-should-we-take-advice-from-a-president-who-has-surrendered-t/
Poseidon Atlantis
Mayor
When you look at the Tories in the leave team group photo in the article .....
I see your point though , and his reason to leave is , for me , a very persuasive one to leave .
Queen Titania
Senator
I don't care about the Tories who want out - how are they worse than those who want in? They are all post Thatcher Tories for heavens sake ---
I care about being able to hold our Government to account - and actually trade freely with whom ever we care too - And get peoples jobs back, in time, and their homes.
Poseidon Atlantis
Mayor
The reasons to leave seem to be stacking up :-
The U.K. Has been voted off all major EU levers of power
The EU expands of its own voletician , Turkey next , Syria ? Saudi Arabia ? Iraqi membership? Who knows ? The new Ottoman Empire ?
The Labour Party was opposed to the EU until 1983 and are split.
The Tories are split .
Who is actually in control of the EU ? The Hydra has no head with a brain .
There is a long list of Etc. Etc. After this but you know that .
Queen Titania
Senator
Yes I do and more ---- the Turks are going to be given unlimited visas to move freely withing the EU any min now and before they are a member state ---- All of the European countries paid Turks and Kurds to leave once the work dried up - it will not be going down well!
Another reason for being out of the firing line when the shit really hits the fan over there.
Poseidon Atlantis
Mayor
Where did you see that?
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