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Game on: North Korea is going down

Discussion in 'Foreign Affairs and Foreign Policy' started by Days, Apr 11, 2017.

  1. Days

    Days Governor

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    ETR, there's nothing weak about the threat to nuke major population centers. Obviously, the US and Russia could do that, but we have been reducing our warheads, Russia is dismantling plutonium warheads and the material is used as fuel in Japanese power plants.
    You must feel that North Korea has no intentions of carrying out any of their threats, but I'm not sure anyone agrees with that, not even Russia or China.
     
  2. EatTheRich

    EatTheRich Senator

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    I'm saying N. Korea is making threats in response to threats against N. Korea. Remove those threats, and N. Korea has no motive for bellicosity.
     
  3. Days

    Days Governor

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    UNITED STATES MOVES SECOND AIRCRAFT CARRIER TO NORTH KOREA!
    Published on May 18, 2017
     
  4. Days

    Days Governor

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    Reality check...

    North Korea lives in its own world of threatened existence, they do not allow their people any contact with the outside world.

    North Korea is openly developing nuclear weapons... and selling them to other nations; they are the number one cause of nuclear proliferation on the planet today.

    North Korea knows very well that the United States will not act against them without coordination from China and Russia, so not only do they declare war on the US and threaten to turn our cities into ash heaps, they believe they can do so with total impunity.

    In short, North Korea doesn't need a motive to act out their bellicosity, they feel they have a license to taunt and declare war and launch ballistic missiles at their neighbors. If they really felt the least bit threatened, they behave in the exact opposite of what would reduce those threats... so it seems, they don't feel the least bit threatened.
     
  5. EatTheRich

    EatTheRich Senator

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    Reality check ... the U.S. and its allies actually DID turn N. Korea's cities ... all of them ... into ash heaps. The U.S. has over 100 times as many nuclear weapons as N. Korea, its most powerful are at least 4000 times stronger than N. Korea's, and it is the only country to have waged nuclear war.

    It is only N. Korea's military and political resistance that has put an end to active war on the peninsula and kept further U.S.-led aggression under control.
     
  6. Days

    Days Governor

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    But what does that have to do with North Korea pushing nuclear proliferation in the 21st century? Nothing.

    The Reagan task group has now joined the Carl Vinson task group in Korean waters. North Korea is facing a determined desire to put a stop to their nuclear program. If they are unable to negotiate with the US, they are going to find out how badly outgunned they really are. The end of the Korean War will only take about 2 weeks, if it comes down to that. Arguing over the battles that took place in the 1950s... they really need to focus on the armies surrounding them today.
     
  7. EatTheRich

    EatTheRich Senator

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    If they were that badly outgunned, they'd already have been brought down. Remember they also have the support of the working class and anti-imperialist alliances all over the world, a potent political asset.
     
  8. Days

    Days Governor

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    Right now, they have China, Russia, and the USA all surrounding them. Everyone else is nowhere close to them.

    China was always their big brother, but even China is not on their side at this time...

    North Korean Hackers Turn On China? | China Uncensored
    Published on May 22, 2017
     
  9. EatTheRich

    EatTheRich Senator

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    Mao wasn't really on their side either ... until the Chinese working class intervened and the threat of U.S. invasion changed the calculation for him.
     
  10. Days

    Days Governor

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    Given the current calculus of power, I think Kim would have been wise to ask Trump for terms; he could offer up his whole nuclear program in exchange for enough aid and trade to make his citizens happy, healthy, and wise. Giving up his nukes would do so much more for his nation than holding onto them could ever do. America offers you gold first, but lead later... if you turn down the gold.
     
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  11. EatTheRich

    EatTheRich Senator

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    That remains N. Korea's best option. And democratization would serve defense of N. Korea much more than nuclear weapons.
     
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  12. Days

    Days Governor

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    It is almost impossible to get a clear idea of how many potent warships are in the Korean waters... South Korea and Japan have most of their navies in the area, we have most of our Pacific fleets in the area. We have have been readying carriers in Pacific waters just to return them to port in Norfolk, it's like a big ol' shell game as we shuffle carriers, light carriers, cruisers, destroyers in and out here and there, into the region, out of the region, back to port, back to South China Sea, back to Korean waters....

    Show of Force: US Deploys Third Aircraft Carrier to North Korea
    Published on May 27, 2017


    There is a bevy of Cruisers and Destroyers in Korean waters, dozens of US, Japanese and Korean modern missile launching warships exactly like the 2 US destroyers that carried out the Syrian airfield attack. There is - and this is a guess - about a half dozen light carriers (helicopter carriers) that are no doubt fielding F-135Bs in with those transport and attack helicopters. And now we are about to up the big carriers to three... we have a half dozen more big carriers sitting in port ready to join the fight, the Gerald Ford will be commissioned any day now, so will the new LHD7 Tripoli (America class light carrier).

    Expect to see the big carriers head over there task group by task group, which also adds a light carrier and a cruiser and destroyers. There is already more than enough power sitting in the area to carry out a devastating first strike, but I think the idea is to keep adding more and more ridiculous pressure onto Kim until he cracks... God help the North Korans if he doesn't.
     
  13. Days

    Days Governor

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    Assembling an "armada"...

    (and it keeps growing, the Nimitz task group is enroute in the Indian Ocean to make it 3 carrier task groups, but don't forget all the Japanese and South Korean destroyers and US, UK, Japanese, and SK helicopter carriers - between the Sea of Japan, South China Sea, and Korean waters, there's a massive amount of modern warships already in the area, plus all the submarines under the waves)

    NEWS ALERT - Japan Navy Begins 3 Days Drill With Two US Carrier Strike Groups
    Published on Jun 1, 2017
     
  14. Days

    Days Governor

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    July 4, 2017...
    North Korea successfully tests a 2-stage ICBM...


    North Korea launches first successful intercontinental ballistic missile test
    [​IMG]
    Published on Jul 4, 2017



    ... fun, eh? They also have a 3 stage ICBM, which they claim is also operational. It stands to reason, that it is. What we don't think they have yet, is a nuclear warhead small enough to load onto those ballistic missiles. Of course, we didn't think their ICBMs were operational yet, either. If they haven't perfected the warhead yet, they are damn close, they are likely to get there some time in 2018. That's why I think we are looking at a military response this fall.

    The US and South Korea came up with a peculiar response to NK's ICBM...


    South Korea, U.S. fire missiles into East Sea in response to North Korea's ICBM test
    [​IMG]



    ... those were precision guided ballistic missiles, which we do have warheads for, and everyone knows it. What we were saying was this, "This is what you guys need if you really want to attack our fleets" ... that's why we fired them into the Sea. Had we put warheads on those missiles and aimed them at a carrier group, it would have been goodbye carrier group; which is what North Korea has been threatening to do to our fleets in Korean waters... but it is highly unlikely that their surface to ship missiles can get the job done; those carry conventional munitions, not nukes. So our response seemed to be saying, we have what it takes to bring the battle at this time and you don't. (... which also implies, we are not going to wait for North Korea to achieve the smaller nuclear warheads which could be used against our fleets... notice the trajectory of the North Korean July 4th ICBM test; this would be exactly how that missile could be used to attack our carrier fleets).
     
  15. Jen

    Jen Proud Deplorable

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    Once NoKo gets that ability - and it will no doubt be soon - the whole face of any war against them will change.

    But Americans are not at all fond of preemptive strikes these days.

    It will be interesting - and scary - to watch, I think.
     
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  16. Days

    Days Governor

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    This is where GWB's goofy "dead or alive" and "showdown at high noon" type foreign policy will pay off. Trump can give them a delivery date and they either hand over the nuke program or it is war. Thanks to GWB delivering the war on the day and hour promised in Iraq, North Korea can not afford to call Trump's bluff. Besides, I don't think he's bluffing, no one thinks he's bluffing, and mad dog Matthis is ready and capable of delivering the war. Faced with a delivery date, Kim has no sane option other than capitulate to our demands. Trump says he has a 10% chance of talking Kim out of his nukes, but I think it is higher. Kim is not insane, but he has painted himself into a corner with his internal politics.

    As always, there's a catch. If Kim can attach a nuclear warhead to a ballistic missile and successfully test it... that will give the whole world pause.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2017
  17. Queen Titania

    Queen Titania Senator

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    What if there is no such thing as a Nuke?
     
  18. Days

    Days Governor

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    And even if there is, would if there is no such thing as re-entry at high speeds? (yes, that exists, we call them shooting stars... the point is, just how does a nuclear warhead sit on top of a missile and re-enter the atmosphere? Even with a heat shield, the warhead is going to get baked at 4000 degrees (F)... what does that do to uranium?)

    Ballistic missiles have been tested plenty .... and .... nuclear warheads have been tested plenty .... but, has a ballistic missile - with a nuclear warhead attached - ever been "tested"? I don't think so. It is still a theory.
     
  19. Queen Titania

    Queen Titania Senator

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    Since I have doubts as to whether we have ever left Earth's atmosphere - I can't speculate - not on a thing which has not yet been proven to me.
     
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  20. Days

    Days Governor

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    There is a tremendous amount of evidence that suggests manned space flight is a hoax. I'm not convinced either way, but this much I am sure of; re-entry of any vehicle has to happen at very slow speeds; aluminum melts at 1100 degrees (F).
     
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