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Greece struggles to find creditors

Discussion in 'Economics, Business, and Taxes' started by Max R., Apr 17, 2015.

  1. fairsheet

    fairsheet Senator

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    It's interesting that the mean ol' IMF is the outfit calling for some sort of debt (principle and/or capital) restructuring for Greece. I don't imagine it's because they've suddenly gone "nice". I think it's probably more about their admitting that that's the ONLY way Greece's numbers can be made to pencil out.
     
  2. Queen Titania

    Queen Titania Senator

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    Sounds as though is is more likely than not that agent provocateurs were used to disperse the demonstrators and give an excuse to the Police to be rougher than needs be ---- It can't be proved either way but that is what peaceful demonstrators were saying last night.
     
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  3. Queen Titania

    Queen Titania Senator

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    'un'-Peace keeping troops?!
     
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  4. Queen Titania

    Queen Titania Senator

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    If we back up, writing down the debt was called for in the first place ---- last night it was being said that this deal is totally impossible and too vague in places anyway - and that there is now a huge rift between France and Germany over it.
     
  5. georgephillip

    georgephillip Governor

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    Should we send the bill to Lloyd "God's Work" Blankfein?

    "The Greek debt crisis offers another illustration of Wall Street’s powers of persuasion and predation, although the Street is missing from most accounts.

    "The crisis was exacerbated years ago by a deal with Goldman Sachs, engineered by Goldman’s current CEO, Lloyd Blankfein. Blankfein and his Goldman team helped Greece hide the true extent of its debt, and in the process almost doubled it.

    "And just as with the American subprime crisis, and the current plight of many American cities, Wall Street’s predatory lending played an important although little-recognized role..."

    "Executives at Goldman and other Wall Street banks have enjoyed huge pay packages and promotions. Blankfein, now Goldman’s CEO, raked in $24 million last year alone.

    "Meanwhile, the people of Greece struggle to buy medicine and food."

    ?Portugal next:eek:

    http://www.thenation.com/article/goldmans-greek-gambit/
     
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  6. Max R.

    Max R. On the road Supporting Member

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    Merkel favors the deal, but I think Greece will implode in the end. Before it does, the other Euro nations would be wise to start protecting themselves.

    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33560366
    The German parliament has voted in favour of starting negotiations on Greece's €86bn (£60bn) bailout deal.

    The motion passed with a clear majority, with 439 MPs in favour, 119 votes against and 40 abstentions.

    Prior to the vote, Chancellor Angela Merkel warned of "predictable chaos" if the Bundestag did not back the plan.
     
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  7. fairsheet

    fairsheet Senator

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    That seems to be exactly what the IMF is saying. Even the current "deal" just kicks the can down the road once more, to the detriment of all.

    Greece needs s "reset", the moral hazard be damned. That's why it's impossible for the EU to "copy" our American federal system. We can execute said "resets" vis a vis our various states, without getting too hung up on the moral hazard aspects.
     
  8. Queen Titania

    Queen Titania Senator

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    The EU is made up of diverse and ancient countries not modern states --- that is the difference.

    The EU is now insisting that we teach History from the pov of History being all about fighting for a united Europe, over the centuries, instead of the truth.... 'he who owns the past owns the future'
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2015
  9. georgephillip

    georgephillip Governor

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    "How did Greece get to this point?

    "Greece became the epicenter of Europe’s debt crisis after Wall Street imploded in 2008. With global financial markets still reeling, Greece announced in October 2009 that it had been understating its deficit figures for years, raising alarms about the soundness of Greek finances.

    "Suddenly, Greece was shut out from borrowing in the financial markets. By the spring of 2010, it was veering toward bankruptcy, which threatened to set off a new financial crisis.

    "To avert calamity, the so-called troika — the International Monetary Fund, the European Central Bank and the European Commission — issued the first of two international bailouts for Greece, which would eventually total more than 240 billion euros, or about $264 billion at today’s exchange rates."
    [​IMG]
    "Almost two-thirds of Greece’s debt, about 200 billion euros, is owed to the eurozone bailout fund or other eurozone countries.

    "Greece does not have to make any payments on that debt until 2023.

    "The International Monetary Fund has proposed extending the grace period until mid-century.

    "So while Greece’s total debt is big—as much as double the country’s annual economic output—it might not matter much if the government did not need to make payments for decades to come. By the time the money came due, the Greek economy could have grown enough that the sum no longer seemed daunting.

    "In the short term, though, Greece has a problem making payments due on loans from the International Monetary Fund and on bonds held by the European Central Bank. Those obligations amount to more than 24 billion euros through the middle of 2018, and it is unlikely that either institution would agree to long delays in repayment

    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/business/international/greece-debt-crisis-euro.html?_r=0
     
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  10. fairsheet

    fairsheet Senator

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    Yes. The EU's experiment looks to've failed, yet they're not yet willing to admit it.
     
  11. Queen Titania

    Queen Titania Senator

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  12. fairsheet

    fairsheet Senator

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  13. Queen Titania

    Queen Titania Senator

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    Nope, he is talking in very good English.
     
  14. georgephillip

    georgephillip Governor

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  15. Queen Titania

    Queen Titania Senator

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  16. georgephillip

    georgephillip Governor

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    "
    "Costas Lapavitsas is a professor in economics at the University of London School of Oriental and African Studies. He teaches the political economy of finance, and he's a regular columnist for The Guardian.

    Dimitri Lascaris is a partner with the Canadian law firm of Siskinds, where he heads the firm's securities class actions practice. Before joining Siskinds, he practiced securities law in the New York and Paris offices of a major Wall Street law firm. Last year, he was named by Canadian Business magazine as one of the 50 most influential business people in Canada, and was described by the magazine as 'the fiercest advocate for shareholder rights' in Canada. He is currently prosecuting numerous securities class actions in Canada, including the Sino-Forest class action, in which his clients just negotiated the largest auditor settlement in Canadian history: a $117 million settlement with the accounting firm Ernst & Young."
    http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=14283
    Costas and Dimitri would be even more effective, imho, if they connected the dots between Greece today and the role private central bankers have played in funding "democratic" governments over the past three centuries.

     
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  17. Queen Titania

    Queen Titania Senator

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    I am sure they do but diplomacy is all important in this game.
     
  18. georgephillip

    georgephillip Governor

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    If history informs diplomacy, it would be worth knowing if either Costas or Dimitri agree with this assessment of Robert Mundell by Greg Palast:

    "Who spawned this cruel little bastard coin?

    "I called its parent, Professor Robert Mundell. Mundell is known as the Father of the Euro. The Euro is often spoken of as a means to unite post-war Europeans together emotionally and politically and to give this united Europe the economic power to compete with the U.S. economy.

    "That’s horseshit..."

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-17/little-known-history-euro-crisis-was-baked-start
     
  19. Queen Titania

    Queen Titania Senator

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    Yes that is horse shit as are the excuses given for destroying Europe in two Wars.
     
  20. georgephillip

    georgephillip Governor

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    Or Germany's excuses for supporting the euro today?
    "Germany sees the Euro as a way to weaken its currency to increase exports. As Ben Bernanke notestoday:

    "'Germany has benefited from having a currency, the euro, with an international value that is significantly weaker than a hypothetical German-only currency would be. Germany’s membership in the euro area has thus proved a major boost to German exports, relative to what they would be with an independent currency.'

    "Moreover – in a little-known slice of history – the Euro was really created for very different purposes than peace in Europe or competition against the U.S.

    "Specifically, this guy – a North American named Robert Mundell – is the father of the Euro:

    [​IMG]

    "Mundell is not the least bit European. Born in Canada, Mundell taught at the University of Chicago for 7 years, and has since taught at Columbia University in New York for more than 40 years.

    "But didn’t Mundell create the Euro to help Europe?

    "Not according to Guardian, Independent and BBC investigative journalist Greg Palast, who explained in his book Vulture’s Picnic..."

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-07-17/little-known-history-euro-crisis-was-baked-start
     
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