Greedy union memebers refuse to take Obama's advice

[justoffal]

Greedy union members refuse to take Obama's advice.

This is one case where Obama's theory of wealth and egalitarianism would have saved the day.

Wealth redistribution! It's the stock in trade of the Obama Administration. Take wealth from wherever it is concentrated and spread it out so that those who are weak from the lack of Wealth will be strogner and then contribute to the whole, the collective.

If only someone had told the Hostess Unions about this concept. The Unions don't mind taking money from those who are wealthier than they are under the guise of wealth re-distribution but when they are asked to consider those less fortunate than they are...well re-distribution is no longer a valid plan as far as they are concerned.

Of course there are many reasons why 18,000 jobs will cease to exist in a few weeks if not already. It's not all due the refusal of Unions to redistribute the wealth they gathered over years of negotiations...some of it is due to stupid territorial rules like Bread drivers only being allowed to deliver bread and Twinkie drivers only being allowed to deliver twinkies.

What I think the IBCC should do is to sell the business to the Unions. Get an owner financed loan with a balloon limit on it say five or six years down the line and then let the Unions run the business. If they can't make it in five years or so...then so be it...maybe it should go away.

Until then perhaps they would do well to sit with the Red Diaper Troika in DC and reconsider their position on Wealth Redistribution.

 

[OldGaffer]

CEO triples his salary to 2.25 million a year, demanded common workers take a 10% across the board pay cut, but you defend the CEO, typical Winger lacky and lickspittle of the 1%.

 

[justoffal]

Defend? I don't recall mentioning anything about the CEO......

BTW his salary hardly accunts for 1% of the total overhead whereas workers wages are up there in the 20% range. Add that to the increased cost of Obamacare....rising gas prices....devaluing dollar....and dimiinshed purchasing capacity of the average twinkie consumer and you could eliminate the CEO's job with little to no effect on the future of the business. Your outrage is over ideology not balance sheets.

I too think that CEO's like that are slimy of course but then again they don't subscribe to redistribution like the Unions do....

If the Union members really and truly believe in redistribution they ought to put their money where their mouth is....orrrrr maybe...jussssst maybe....redistribution doesn't actually work. Nothing stops the workers or the Unioin from purchasing stock in the company btw. IMO....a smart Unioin would put out stock options either for individual employee holdings or group ownership. It just makes sense from the standpoint of takng responsiblity for one's own future. However I find, by andl large this is not a quality that blue collar workers posesses as much as they should.

JO

 

[degsme]

Defend? I don't recall mentioning anything about the CEO......

BTW his salary hardly accunts for 1% of the total overhead whreas workers wages are up there in the 20% range.

really? So the Unions want $220 Million in wage increases?

Sorry no

The Unions don't mind taking money from those who are wealthier than they are under the guise of wealth re-distribution but when they are asked to consider those less fortunate than they are...well re-distribution is no longer a valid plan as far as they are concerned.

Um how is getting paid for your work "redistribution" of anything? If anything the "redistribution" occurs FROM the union workers TO the Shareholders and management.


You really need to learn about economics.

 

[888888]

Defend? I don't recall mentioning anything about the CEO......

BTW his salary hardly accunts for 1% of the total overhead whreas workers wages are up there in the 20% range. Add that to the increased cost of Obamacare....rising gas prices....devaluing dollar....and dimiinshed purchasing capacity of the average twinkie consumer and you could eliminate the CEO's job with little to no effect on the future of the business. Your outrage is over ideology not balance sheets.

I too think that CEO's like that are slimy of course but then again they don't subscribe to redistribution like the Unions do....

If the Union members really and truly believe in redistribution they ought to put their money where their mouth is....orrrrr maybe...jussssst maybe....redistribution doesn't actually work. Nothing stops the workers or the Unioin from purchasing stock in the company btw. IMO....a smart Unioin would put out stock options either for individual employee holdings or group ownership. It just makes sense from the standpoint of takng responsiblity for one's own future. However I find, by andl large this is not a quality that blue collar workers posesses as much as they should.

JO

OK guy lets see your facts! workers salaries are 20% of overhead.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/11/16/1162235/-Private-equity-owned-Hostess-blames-striking-workers-as-it-liquidates

The real story is these wall street investors know nothing about running bakeries but a lot about making money for themselves and their investors. They could give a shit about working people or what happens in their liefs.

 

[justoffal]

Here are the facts and they are very simple:

CEO pay has little or nothing to do with wages.. Remember the Global Trade Treaties? Global pressure now sets the wage tables not CEO pay.

Unless and untill you can get the American consumer to pay more for American made goods than for those made in other places...wages will continue to sink.

Do you own an I-phone or a Samsung product? How about Dell? ...... No matter what you own .... some of it was made somewhere else.

See as I posted elsewhere today FUNDAMENTAL TRANSFORMATION means that you learn to pay $2300.00 for an I-phone instead of $500.00

Bet you thought Obama was talking about conservatives when he talks about Fundamental Transformations....he's talking about you spunky!

So get out there and buy that I-phone for what it's really worth! NO? Well then STFU until you sweep your own front porch.

 

[justoffal]

no no no no....that's not what I am saying at all......

For what it's worth I agree that CEO"s make too much....but once again I tell you that it has nothing whatsoever to do with the wage levels of the workers.
Wage levels and therefore workers have been thrown into the Global commodities market there buddy.....TRADE TREATIES DID THAT ........

You are the one who is woefully ignorant of ecomoic machinery. It is pragmatic and has no preference whatsoever for politcal parites. If it did you would be hunting high and low to pay five times the amount for your cell phone...but no.....You...THAT'S RIGHT YOU....look for the best buy you can find on your cell phone....you look for the company that offers you the best deal you selfish consumer you! See...you are part of the equation and you don't even know it! OMG...no wonder obama got your vote...you don't understand that YOU are in his crosshairs and its YOUR WAllET he's coming after.

That's right redistribution and wages are TOTALLY RELATED! By accepting a wage cut there could be more positions open for those who are unemployed....hey know what? That's creating a job! But noooooo! Those unoin guys are not thinking about the unemployed people right there in their town who are living on nothing....living hand to mouth.....living on dead benefits. I thought that the Unions were into the Redistribution thing! Soooo what's the problem? They are being asked to live by what the believe in and all of a sudden ooops! They don't believe in it anymore when it's their WALLET! Bwahahahahahahah! It's too good to be true! But of course sad at the same time.

WOW! JUST WOW!

I knew you guys were clueless but this level of ignorance about real world economics is just unacceptable for someone with such a big mouth.

JO

 

[degsme]

You are the one who is woefully ignorant of ecomoic machinery. It is pragmatic and has no preference whatsoever for politcal parites.

You are naive and clearly don't have much experience in working with Execs.

If it did you would be hunting high and low to pay five times the amount for your cell phone...but no.....You...THAT'S RIGHT YOU....look for the best buy you can find on your cell phone....you look for the company that offers you the best deal you selfish consumer you!

Um no not really. If that actually were the case, there would be ZERO price differences across products and we basically would have far fewer choices since the market would instantly converge to a single prices and a small "optimized" solution. The reality is that markets have all manners of inefficiencies in them.

And one of the things that drives inefficiencies are

• Risk Assymetry
• Information Assymetry

(Go look up the Nobel Prize awards on this research)

What Unions do is to ameliorate these two assymetries and thus Unions Make Labor Markets more Economically EFFICIENT

 

[justoffal]

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaat?

Working with what? OMG this is the reason you are screaiming for a solution from a place that it will never, ever come from.

So you actually think that what you pay for an I-phone is not subsidized by the massive labor forces in China and Asian in General? Is that what you are saying? Nobel peace prize my ass....

In case you haven't noticed prices are indeed moving toward a convergence and so are wages! Wanna tell me differently? You just hung yourself with your own reasoning. As the Global pressure shapes and molds the markets wages will become a function of that pressure....it is inevitable. You can try putting up tariffs and trade barrires if you want...people will just go to whatever black market springs up from those actions.

The largest single efficiency factor considered by both organized labor and by corporate ownership is LABOR COST.....it's the one thing that can be controlled beyond say the price of transportaion or the raw materials.

Like it or not Labor is now a commodity and it is an international commodity.

If there was too much risk in the process....the only I-phone available to you would be the one you would have to pay $2300.00 for......

So tell me...what products do you own? Appple? Samsung? Dell? ........ you've got at least one of them.... I peg you for an Apple guy.

JO

 

[degsme]

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaat?

Working with what? OMG this is the reason you are screaiming for a solution from a place that it will never, ever come from.

So you actually think that what you pay for an I-phone is not subsidized by the massive labor forces in China and Asian in General? Is that what you are saying? Nobel peace prize my ass....

Depends onhow you define "subsidy"... Neither has anything to do with

• Information Assymetry
• Risk Assymetry"

or the fact that unions level that playing field.

In case you haven't noticed prices are indeed moving toward a convergence and so are wages!

Um not quite. the wage issue is PURELY DRIVEN by policy in CERTAIN SECTORS of the market
and price point is driven by value-perception.

So called "global pressure" only "shapes" those segments of industries that we allow. And black markets ONLY exist for products where the risk/reward function is high. Even then, the LOCAL production can thrive. Best example of this is Cannibis. Prior to "Zero Tolerance", Maui Wowie, Acapulco Gold and BC Bud were the market leaders. "Zero Tolerance" functioned as a Tarrif increasing the cost of importation. and as a result the domestic industry thrived and dramatically improved to where it is now the single biggest cash crop in the USA.

The largest single efficiency factor considered by both organized labor and by corporate ownership is LABOR COST.

No that's COST MINIMIZATION in the individual case. That's not the same as economic efficiency. Economic Efficiency means that the society's resources are optimally allocated BASED ON THE SOCIETAL GOALS. For example, in the Vatican, optimal economic efficiency maximizes the resources allocated to the celebration of "God". It does not seek to optimize innovation, or income equity, or highest per capita GDP etc.

Labor is not a commodity. Never was. And society can and does set rules that change the balance between labor and capital. And Unions simply make the TRADING MARKET "more efficient" because they allow Labor to more accurately price in SOCIETAL VALUES into the labor cost.

[/quote]So tell me...what products do you own? Appple? Samsung? Dell? ........ you've got at least one of them.... I peg you for an Apple guy.

JO[/QUOTE]
Wrong on all three. Do explain the significance though.

 

[degsme]

Here are the facts and they are very simple:

CEO pay has little or nothing to do with wages.. Remember the Global Trade Treaties? Global pressure now sets the wage tables not CEO pay.

Wrong. Factually wrong. Proof: the person vaccuuming the floor in the CEO's office is paid more per hour than the guy vaccuuming the floor for a CEO in New Delhi.

If Global Pressure set the wages, then that would not be so. As for buying an I-phone for "what it's really worth" - again, that's not the way markets efficiently allocate resources.