I'm not that knowledgeable yet about the geography of Gettysburg and the surrounding area. I have to pull it up on Google Maps on my iPad while I'm reading it to visualize the troop movements up to July 2nd,1863.
High Tide at Gettysburg
- Thread starter JackDallas
- Start date
I found two things worthwhile in understanding the battlefield. The first was simply playing the old video game "Sid Meier's Gettysburg" but I 'm not certain how available that is today.
The second is visiting the battlefield. If you do either of these, the game or the battlefield, it becomes obvious that Lee probably shouldn't have attacked at all on the third day, and that the Union would have had little or no chance of victory if Ewell had taken Culp's Hill on the first day, as apparently he could have done without opposition.
I already understand that. Realistically,a battlefield visit is a year or 2 away and I'm thinking that I might wanna go to Sharpsburg first.
I was mainly talking about the two armies' movements to the battlefield beginning in June 1863. As little as 2 years ago,I was not aware how disbursed the Civil War armies were as they traveled from battlefield to battlefield. I hadn't actually visited or driven through a CW battle area until this past January when I visited Lynchburg,VA and Appomattox Court House and contemplated how difficult it was to move CW armies.
It's especially amazing when you consider how fast they maneuvered. Jackson's men were able to mop-up an action at Harper's Ferry, and then cover roughly 15 miles to Sharpsburg, and then re-engage, essentially rescuing Lee during the battle at Sharpsburg/Antietam -- all in one day. Lee's men at Gettysburg had covered 40 miles in less than a week, while carrying all the gear they had for combat. The logistics of moving an army around strategically were staggering.
Consider some of McClellan's moves into Virginia. Not only did he have to have 100,000 men and materiel along his main line of attack -- but he also had to issue orders to between 20,000 and 50,000 troops to seal the passes into the Shenandoah Valley, to ensure he wasn't flanked on the march (Pope failed to do this adequately, which led him to be outflanked by Jackson at Second Bull Run), and all of these massive number of troops had to be armed, fed, clothed and shod for the weeks or months of the campaign. And the same was true for the Army he opposed, which also had less in the way of supplies and relied on McClellan to supply much of its own needs.
Taken as a whole, 19th century warfare is an interesting study. Napoleon taught them mobility. Watt put them on trains, and Minie made the muskets more accurate, but mostly they still marched or rode into battle, with single shot muzzleloaders, after weeks of near starvation trying to pin each other down. Lee probably said it best himself. "It is good that this is so horrible... we should grow to fond of it."
Great example. The battle was August 28-30,1862 but troop movements leading up to it began in July.
I agree. Gettysburg clearly demonstrated how much Lee had counted on Jackson. Jackson would have taken Culp's Hill on the 1st and the Confederates would have been able to rain enfilade fire down on the strength of the union line.
As it was, on the 3rd the Union had Culp's and two Round Tops and did the same to Picket's division and the other forces in that charge so Lee had no chance of success.
I've been there and looked out across that field from the Union line and it's a long way to march under fire. I'm amazed that any of them got back to their line alive.
I think the battle was "Confederate winnable" on the 2nd day, with a couple of changes to Lee's battle plan. The plan lost time, marching troops south to rush Little Round Top at the same time an attack by Ewell was taking place on Culps Hill. Needless to say, the time/motion of this plan doesn't work. The idea was to weaken the center by attacking both ends, but as there was no way to coordinate the attacks, the center strengthened first one end, and then the other. Lee should have kept the troops on the north end and mounted an attack on Culp's Hill with double the numbers.
Another road to success for Lee, on the second day and on that battlefield, would have simply been to be more creative. In the past, Lee and his lieutenants had done wonders with creativity. Just two artillery pieces up on Big Round Top, which Lee held at the end of the first day, would have made the Union position untenable. Lee's men had worked miracles with handspikes and axes before -- at Gettysburg, they didn't even try.
But Gettysburg was a turning point in another way, too. You mentioned the loss of Jackson, and it by itself was huge, but the CSA Army was beginning to suffer from a loss of good leadership across the board. Good CW commanders led from the front -- and people leading from the front were likely to become dead -- and given the South's population of warfare-eligible men, there was little likelihood they'd be replaced. There was no time to train-up new "middle managers" and no source of them if there'd been time. Victory for the South could only happen at that point with an influx of leadership and materiel from another source, as happened during the Revolution when the French helped Washington, and Europe provided leaders such as Lafayette and Von Steuben.
Lee could have won on that battlefield, but his army was decaying and the Union Army was improving. Even if he'd won, it would have been non-military matters, such as recognition of the CSA by France or England, that would have changed the outcome of the war.
Had to order a new magnifying glass. Couldn't read the small print on the maps in the book.
Ordered and received this book while I was reading the other one. Very helpful in orienting myself to the battlefield.
The two pictures appear to be have been taken at Devils Den. That is an awesome place. When you go to Gettysburg be sure to check it out. They have period pictures at most of the sites that you can compare the surroundings to how they look today.Ordered and received this book while I was reading the other one. Very helpful in orienting myself to the battlefield.
At Little Round Top there is/was a picture looking down the side of the hill, the day after the battle, that showed three men sitting on a rock. You can look over the picture down the hill and see that rock still sitting there in the exact same position, without the three men, of course.
Read this memoir earlier this year. The soldier was in the 5th TX Inf.,one of the Confederate regiments that attacked Little Round Top. When I finished the book,I went back and re-read his account of that day at LRT.
You are becoming quite an aficionado of the ACW. It's addicting, I know. For me, it's the most interesting part of our history.Read this memoir earlier this year. The soldier was in the 5th TX Inf.,one of the Confederate regiments that attacked Little Round Top. When I finished the book,I went back and re-read his account of that day at LRT.
I am enjoying it so much.
The Sage of Main Street
Governor
Government Off the People, Buy the People, and Force the People
What did it have to do with government of the people "perish(ing) from (the face of) the earth"? The Confederacy had practically the same form of Constitutional republic. Lincoln used lawyerese to hide his designs.
Difference being that the Confederacy had no plans to free the slaves. Lincoln did. Whatever his motives, Lincoln had the higher moral ground.
Release has been delayed until March 16,2016.Got this one pre-ordered. Supposed to be released and shipped this month.
Got it in the mail early last week and started it tonight.Got this one pre-ordered. Supposed to be released and shipped this month.
