Colorforms
Senator
Neither is Bolten, nor are any of the witnesses democrats claim they want. Schiff claims he has "indisputable evidence" of Trump's collusion, so I think it is incumbent upon him to lay it out for the senate.
House impeachment managers announced...
- Thread starter Bugsy McGurk
- Start date
YJ02
Council Member
a new thread, good place for me to park this post!
could we review? i promise, i have a point to make regarding the very foundation of the impeachment AND that the Dem's cared nothing for accuracy or facts and have all along been looking for a charge to put on their impeachment articles written in July of 2016
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so-- the president has been impeached by the House for issues relating to his withholding of a military aide package--a 'tranche' i believe the state dept/pentagon call it
can anyone tell me JUST WHAT Item in that tranche (all of which Ukraine had already received some of in previous deliveries) became such a hot topic the democrats mentioned by the equipment's name and even said that Ukrainian soldiers died because Trump withheld that delivery?
so, what equipment was in that withheld shipment?
specifically what item was a big deal that even LTC Vindman said was a "game changer" in the war in Donbas? the facts will show that Vindman is a liar on this point
now, please, someone be interested and restore my faith in americans that someone has some interest in issues BEYOND FACE VALUE @JackDallas ,@Dawg
thanks!!!
could we review? i promise, i have a point to make regarding the very foundation of the impeachment AND that the Dem's cared nothing for accuracy or facts and have all along been looking for a charge to put on their impeachment articles written in July of 2016
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
so-- the president has been impeached by the House for issues relating to his withholding of a military aide package--a 'tranche' i believe the state dept/pentagon call it
can anyone tell me JUST WHAT Item in that tranche (all of which Ukraine had already received some of in previous deliveries) became such a hot topic the democrats mentioned by the equipment's name and even said that Ukrainian soldiers died because Trump withheld that delivery?
so, what equipment was in that withheld shipment?
specifically what item was a big deal that even LTC Vindman said was a "game changer" in the war in Donbas? the facts will show that Vindman is a liar on this point
now, please, someone be interested and restore my faith in americans that someone has some interest in issues BEYOND FACE VALUE
@JackDallas ,@Dawg thanks!!!
Bugsy McGurk
President
Schiff did lay out the evidence they gathered - it’s in the Articles of Impeachment. Schiff witnessed none of that conduct. The witnesses did.Neither is Bolten, nor are any of the witnesses democrats claim they want. Schiff claims he has "indisputable evidence" of Trump's collusion, so I think it is incumbent upon him to lay it out for the senate.
Anyway, you can point to no unlawful conduct of Trump that Schiff witnessed. Progress. Try to take it to the next step and consider how insane it is to claim he should be a witness at Trump’s trial.
YJ02
Council Member
it will be great to see Schiif and Nadler NOT be able to gavel down anyone as well!Neither is Bolten, nor are any of the witnesses democrats claim they want. Schiff claims he has "indisputable evidence" of Trump's collusion, so I think it is incumbent upon him to lay it out for the senate.
hoping for witnesses and hoping the GOP calls some real doozies-- like the Bidens and Vindman for starters
YJ02
Council Member
actually, no one witnessed anything
they heard from someone about somebody who was told by someone else......
Colorforms
Senator
There is nothing in the articles of impeachment. Some vague accusations that were never proven during hearings. So you're saying Schiff has nothing.
Bugsy McGurk
President
You need to read the Articles of Impeachment.actually, no one witnessed anything
they heard from someone about somebody who was told by someone else......
Bugsy McGurk
President
Do you think presidents should be able to shake down vulnerable foreign nations to get them to announce investigations against their political rivals?
voyager
4Q2247365
I heard there is a new rule, no reading Trumps tweets during trial. It will be enough of a right wing clown show as it is.
Bugsy McGurk
President
Colorforms
Senator
Here you go:
Article I: Abuse of power
The Constitution provides that the House of Representatives "shall have the sole Power of Impeachment and that the President shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors". In his conduct of the office of President of the United States—and in violation of his constitutional oath faithfully to execute the office of President of the United States and, to the best of his ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States, and in violation of his constitutional duty to take care that the laws be faithfully executed—Donald J. Trump has abused the powers of the Presidency, in that:
In all this, President Trump abused the powers of the Presidency by ignoring and injuring national security and other vital national interests to obtain an improper personal political benefit. He has also betrayed the Nation by abusing his high office to enlist a foreign power in corrupting democratic elections.
Wherefore President Trump, by such conduct, has demonstrated that he will remain a threat to national security and the Constitution if allowed to remain in office, and has acted in a manner grossly incompatible with self- governance and the rule of law. President Trump thus warrants impeachment and trial, removal from office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, trust, or profit under the United States.
Article II: Obstruction of Congress
The Constitution provides that the House of Representatives "shall have the sole Power of Impeachment" and that the President "shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors". In his conduct of the office of President of the United States—and in violation of his constitutional oath faithfully to execute the office of President of the United States and, to the best of his ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States, and in violation of his constitutional duty to take care that the laws be faithfully executed—
Donald J. Trump has directed the unprecedented, categorical, and indiscriminate defiance of subpoenas issued by the House of Representatives pursuant to its sole Power of Impeachment. President Trump has abused the powers of the Presidency in a manner offensive to, and subversive of, the Constitution, in that:
The House of Representatives has engaged in an impeachment inquiry focused on President Trump's corrupt solicitation of the Government of Ukraine to interfere in the 2020 United States Presidential election. As part of this impeachment inquiry, the Committees undertaking the investigation served subpoenas seeking documents and testimony deemed vital to the inquiry from various Executive Branch agencies and offices, and current and former officials.
In response, without lawful cause or excuse, President Trump directed Executive Branch agencies, offices, and officials not to comply with those subpoenas. President Trump thus interposed the powers of the Presidency against the lawful subpoenas of the House of Representatives, and assumed to himself functions and judgments necessary to the exercise of the "sole Power of Impeachment" vested by the Constitution in the House of Representatives.
President Trump abused the powers of his high office through the following means:
(1) Directing the White House to defy a lawful subpoena by withholding the production of documents sought therein by the Committees.
(2) Directing other Executive Branch agencies and offices to defy lawful subpoenas and withhold the production of documents and records from the Committees—in response to which the Department of State, Office of Management and Budget, Department of Energy, and Department of Defense refused to produce a single document or record.
(3) Directing current and former Executive Branch officials not to cooperate with the Committees—in response to which nine Administration officials defied subpoenas for testimony, namely John Michael "Mick" Mulvaney, Robert B. Blair, John A. Eisenberg, Michael Ellis, Preston Wells Griffith, Russell T. Vought, Michael Duffey, Brian McCormack, and T. Ulrich Brechbuhl.
These actions were consistent with President Trump's previous efforts to undermine United States Government investigations into foreign interference in United States elections.
Through these actions, President Trump sought to arrogate to himself the right to determine the propriety, scope, and nature of an impeachment inquiry into his own conduct, as well as the unilateral prerogative to deny any and all information to the House of Representatives in the exercise of its "sole Power of Impeachment". In the history of the Republic, no President has ever ordered the complete defiance of an impeachment inquiry or sought to obstruct and impede so comprehensively the ability of the House of Representatives to investigate "high Crimes and Misdemeanors". This abuse of office served to cover up the President's own repeated misconduct and to seize and control the power of impeachment and thus to nullify a vital constitutional safeguard vested solely in the House of Representatives.
In all of this, President Trump has acted in a manner contrary to his trust as President and subversive of constitutional government, to the great prejudice of the cause of law and justice, and to the manifest injury of the people of the United States.
Wherefore, President Trump, by such conduct, has demonstrated that he will remain a threat to the Constitution if allowed to remain in office, and has acted in a manner grossly incompatible with self-governance and the rule of law. President Trump thus warrants impeachment and trial, removal from office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any office of honor, trust, or profit under the United States.
A whole lot of vague accusations but absolutely no evidence laid out.
Show me Schiffs evidence of collusion
Bugsy McGurk
President
Collusion?Here you go:
Article I: Abuse of power
The Constitution provides that the House of Representatives "shall have the sole Power of Impeachment and that the President shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors". In his conduct of the office of President of the United States—and in violation of his constitutional oath faithfully to execute the office of President of the United States and, to the best of his ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States, and in violation of his constitutional duty to take care that the laws be faithfully executed—Donald J. Trump has abused the powers of the Presidency, in that:
In all this, President Trump abused the powers of the Presidency by ignoring and injuring national security and other vital national interests to obtain an improper personal political benefit. He has also betrayed the Nation by abusing his high office to enlist a foreign power in corrupting democratic elections.
Wherefore President Trump, by such conduct, has demonstrated that he will remain a threat to national security and the Constitution if allowed to remain in office, and has acted in a manner grossly incompatible with self- governance and the rule of law. President Trump thus warrants impeachment and trial, removal from office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, trust, or profit under the United States.
Article II: Obstruction of Congress
The Constitution provides that the House of Representatives "shall have the sole Power of Impeachment" and that the President "shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors". In his conduct of the office of President of the United States—and in violation of his constitutional oath faithfully to execute the office of President of the United States and, to the best of his ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States, and in violation of his constitutional duty to take care that the laws be faithfully executed—
Donald J. Trump has directed the unprecedented, categorical, and indiscriminate defiance of subpoenas issued by the House of Representatives pursuant to its sole Power of Impeachment. President Trump has abused the powers of the Presidency in a manner offensive to, and subversive of, the Constitution, in that:
The House of Representatives has engaged in an impeachment inquiry focused on President Trump's corrupt solicitation of the Government of Ukraine to interfere in the 2020 United States Presidential election. As part of this impeachment inquiry, the Committees undertaking the investigation served subpoenas seeking documents and testimony deemed vital to the inquiry from various Executive Branch agencies and offices, and current and former officials.
In response, without lawful cause or excuse, President Trump directed Executive Branch agencies, offices, and officials not to comply with those subpoenas. President Trump thus interposed the powers of the Presidency against the lawful subpoenas of the House of Representatives, and assumed to himself functions and judgments necessary to the exercise of the "sole Power of Impeachment" vested by the Constitution in the House of Representatives.
President Trump abused the powers of his high office through the following means:
(1) Directing the White House to defy a lawful subpoena by withholding the production of documents sought therein by the Committees.
(2) Directing other Executive Branch agencies and offices to defy lawful subpoenas and withhold the production of documents and records from the Committees—in response to which the Department of State, Office of Management and Budget, Department of Energy, and Department of Defense refused to produce a single document or record.
Story Continued Below
(3) Directing current and former Executive Branch officials not to cooperate with the Committees—in response to which nine Administration officials defied subpoenas for testimony, namely John Michael "Mick" Mulvaney, Robert B. Blair, John A. Eisenberg, Michael Ellis, Preston Wells Griffith, Russell T. Vought, Michael Duffey, Brian McCormack, and T. Ulrich Brechbuhl.
These actions were consistent with President Trump's previous efforts to undermine United States Government investigations into foreign interference in United States elections.
Through these actions, President Trump sought to arrogate to himself the right to determine the propriety, scope, and nature of an impeachment inquiry into his own conduct, as well as the unilateral prerogative to deny any and all information to the House of Representatives in the exercise of its "sole Power of Impeachment". In the history of the Republic, no President has ever ordered the complete defiance of an impeachment inquiry or sought to obstruct and impede so comprehensively the ability of the House of Representatives to investigate "high Crimes and Misdemeanors". This abuse of office served to cover up the President's own repeated misconduct and to seize and control the power of impeachment and thus to nullify a vital constitutional safeguard vested solely in the House of Representatives.
In all of this, President Trump has acted in a manner contrary to his trust as President and subversive of constitutional government, to the great prejudice of the cause of law and justice, and to the manifest injury of the people of the United States.
Wherefore, President Trump, by such conduct, has demonstrated that he will remain a threat to the Constitution if allowed to remain in office, and has acted in a manner grossly incompatible with self-governance and the rule of law. President Trump thus warrants impeachment and trial, removal from office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any office of honor, trust, or profit under the United States.
A whole lot of vague accusations but absolutely no evidence laid out.
Show me Schiffs evidence of collusion
WTF? That’s in the Mueller report.
Colorforms
Senator
No, I don't think vice presidents should either. What does that have to do with Trump?
Bugsy McGurk
President
I also don’t think presidents should do that.
Do you think they should be impeached if they do it?
Colorforms
Senator
Was your reply to my suggestion that Schiff lay out his "indisputable evidence" he claimed he had on Trump's collusion. So, where is it?
Colorforms
Senator
Nope, I think that the circumstances need to be examined. Presidents are allowed to use their power in order to influence their relationships with other nations. Stick and carrot diplomacy is a tool that every president uses.
Bugsy McGurk
President
I see. I didn’t notice that you sought to derail the discussion. That was truly strange. You think Schiff should testify at Trump’s impeachment trial, which has nothing to do with collusion with Russia, because he said he had evidence of Trump’s collusion with Russia?
If that’s your best effort at logical thought you should strongly consider psychotherapy.
Colorforms
Senator
Run little liar...run.
Bugsy McGurk
President
Wow. That’s truly deplorable.
Should there be any penalty if a president shakes down other nations into announcing investigations of his political rivals?
YJ02
Council Member
i have read plenty of fiction recently, thanks i'm good
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