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How we know that Trump’s intent in Ukrainegate was criminal

Bugsy McGurk

President
One of the talking points of Trump and his GOP enablers is claiming that he was just seeking to combat corruption when he demanded that the Ukraine publicly announce investigations of the Bidens and the 2016 election crimes. Put aside how laughable it is to claim that Trump is really concerned with corruption anywhere in the world. Pretend that corruption bothers him and consider the following.

Trump wasn’t just “asking for investigations.” What he really did, both directly and through his co-conspirators like Giuliani and Sondland, was demand that the Ukraine president publicly announce those investigations. They even wrote out the “announcement script” and directed how it would be delivered - by the Ukraine president himself on CNN.

Announcing such investigations is the last thing one would do if actually interested in ferreting out corruption. Such investigations would be kept quiet so as not to tip off wrongdoers. But again, Trump and his toadies were not really interested in investigations - they demanded a carefully scripted public announcement of investigations.

There is only one possible reason for demanding that public announcement - to tar Joe Biden and give the Trump/GOP machine a concocted basis to argue that there was some doubt about the Kremlin’s role in the 2016 election crimes - that there was some basis to the Trump conspiracy theory to the effect that “The Kremlin didn’t do it; Ukraine did.”

In other words, it’s clear beyond reasonable doubt that Trump’s shakedown was in no way really related to pursuing legitimate aims of the United States. The sole reason for the shakedown was utilizing another nation - a rather desperate nation seeking to hold off Russia’s territorial advances - to announce an investigation to boost Trump’s 2020 election prospects. And knowing it’s criminal, Trump has compounded his culpability by directing his toadies to defy congressional subpoenas.

That is all obviously criminal on numerous levels. The only real question left is whether Trump’s congressional co-conspirators can throw up clouds of dust seeking to obscure the relevant questions and conceal what actually occurred from as many Americans as possible.

Here we go.
 

Raoul_Luke

I feel a bit lightheaded. Maybe you should drive.
Then why hasn't he been impeached already? If what you wrote is, in fact, fact, and it is a slam dunk case, what's the hold up?
 
D

Deleted member 21794

Guest
One of the talking points of Trump and his GOP enablers is claiming that he was just seeking to combat corruption when he demanded that the Ukraine publicly announce investigations of the Bidens and the 2016 election crimes. Put aside how laughable it is to claim that Trump is really concerned with corruption anywhere in the world. Pretend that corruption bothers him and consider the following.

Trump wasn’t just “asking for investigations.” What he really did, both directly and through his co-conspirators like Giuliani and Sondland, was demand that the Ukraine president publicly announce those investigations. They even wrote out the “announcement script” and directed how it would be delivered - by the Ukraine president himself on CNN.

Announcing such investigations is the last thing one would do if actually interested in ferreting out corruption. Such investigations would be kept quiet so as not to tip off wrongdoers. But again, Trump and his toadies were not really interested in investigations - they demanded a carefully scripted public announcement of investigations.

There is only one possible reason for demanding that public announcement - to tar Joe Biden and give the Trump/GOP machine a concocted basis to argue that there was some doubt about the Kremlin’s role in the 2016 election crimes - that there was some basis to the Trump conspiracy theory to the effect that “The Kremlin didn’t do it; Ukraine did.”

In other words, it’s clear beyond reasonable doubt that Trump’s shakedown was in no way really related to pursuing legitimate aims of the United States. The sole reason for the shakedown was utilizing another nation - a rather desperate nation seeking to hold off Russia’s territorial advances - to announce an investigation to boost Trump’s 2020 election prospects. And knowing it’s criminal, Trump has compounded his culpability by directing his toadies to defy congressional subpoenas.

That is all obviously criminal on numerous levels. The only real question left is whether Trump’s congressional co-conspirators can throw up clouds of dust seeking to obscure the relevant questions and conceal what actually occurred from as many Americans as possible.

Here we go.
Who are you trying to convince?
 

Bugsy McGurk

President
I think the "topic" here is just another leftist wet dream (like "Russian collusion").
Nope. It’s a thread that challenges you to defend your cult leader. You can’t do it. But it doesn’t seem to matter to you. You’re good with supporting a criminal being president.

Very strange.
 
D

Deleted member 21794

Guest
Seriously, can’t you even try to make the case that Trump didn’t have criminal intent?

You just don’t care, right?
You have it reversed. I don't have to prove anything. It's YOU who needs to prove something. That's how our justice system works. Duh.
 

Mick

Mayor
One of the talking points of Trump and his GOP enablers is claiming that he was just seeking to combat corruption when he demanded that the Ukraine publicly announce investigations of the Bidens and the 2016 election crimes. Put aside how laughable it is to claim that Trump is really concerned with corruption anywhere in the world. Pretend that corruption bothers him and consider the following.

Trump wasn’t just “asking for investigations.” What he really did, both directly and through his co-conspirators like Giuliani and Sondland, was demand that the Ukraine president publicly announce those investigations. They even wrote out the “announcement script” and directed how it would be delivered - by the Ukraine president himself on CNN.

Announcing such investigations is the last thing one would do if actually interested in ferreting out corruption. Such investigations would be kept quiet so as not to tip off wrongdoers. But again, Trump and his toadies were not really interested in investigations - they demanded a carefully scripted public announcement of investigations.

There is only one possible reason for demanding that public announcement - to tar Joe Biden and give the Trump/GOP machine a concocted basis to argue that there was some doubt about the Kremlin’s role in the 2016 election crimes - that there was some basis to the Trump conspiracy theory to the effect that “The Kremlin didn’t do it; Ukraine did.”

In other words, it’s clear beyond reasonable doubt that Trump’s shakedown was in no way really related to pursuing legitimate aims of the United States. The sole reason for the shakedown was utilizing another nation - a rather desperate nation seeking to hold off Russia’s territorial advances - to announce an investigation to boost Trump’s 2020 election prospects. And knowing it’s criminal, Trump has compounded his culpability by directing his toadies to defy congressional subpoenas.

That is all obviously criminal on numerous levels. The only real question left is whether Trump’s congressional co-conspirators can throw up clouds of dust seeking to obscure the relevant questions and conceal what actually occurred from as many Americans as possible.

Here we go.

Right, right. It's criminal. Just like Russian collusion would be the biggest criminal conspiracy in the history of politics, Smollett was beaten by racist maga guys in a modern day lynching, the Covington kids needed prison time for abusing an indian elder, Mike Brown had his hands up and was executed, and Kavanaugh is a serial rapist.

Every day you have a new criminal conspiracy....and not a single one has bore any fruit. Don't you get tired of looking like an insane conspiracy-driven left wing nut job? Have a little pride you low IQ oaf.
 

JuliefromOhio

Senator
Supporting Member
A public announcement by Ukraine suggesting corruption on Biden's part would benefit Trump the same way the FBI investigation of Hillary was used by Trump to call her corrupt. Neither were/would be based on facts, but it would still benefit Trump.

This extortion by Trump is corrupt and criminal.

Republicans are coming around this position on Trump's corruption and criminality:
"what Trump did was WRONG, but not impeachable."

Trump is FURIOUS with that claim.. Ha ha.

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump




The call to the Ukrainian President was PERFECT. Read the Transcript! There was NOTHING said that was in any way wrong. Republicans, don’t be led into the fools trap of saying it was not perfect, but is not impeachable. No, it is much stronger than that. NOTHING WAS DONE WRONG!
https://twitter.com/intent/like?tweet_id=1193615188311912449
2:43 PM - Nov 10, 2019
 
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Bugsy McGurk

President
You have it reversed. I don't have to prove anything. It's YOU who needs to prove something. That's how our justice system works. Duh.
As you know, that’s what my post does. It makes a damning case for criminal intent. That said, there is an opportunity to argue that his intent was not criminal. You just can’t do it.
 

Bugsy McGurk

President
Right, right. It's criminal. Just like Russian collusion would be the biggest criminal conspiracy in the history of politics, Smollett was beaten by racist maga guys in a modern day lynching, the Covington kids needed prison time for abusing an indian elder, Mike Brown had his hands up and was executed, and Kavanaugh is a serial rapist.

Every day you have a new criminal conspiracy....and not a single one has bore any fruit. Don't you get tired of looking like an insane conspiracy-driven left wing nut job? Have a little pride you low IQ oaf.
Noisy noise.

Let me know if you can address the point of the thread.
 

Bugsy McGurk

President
A public announcement by Ukraine suggesting corruption on Biden's part would benefit Trump the same way the FBI investigation of Hillary was used by Trump to call her corrupt. Neither were/would be based on facts, but it would still benefit Trump.

This extortion by Trump is corrupt and criminal.

Republicans are coming around this position on Trump's corruption and criminality:
"what Trump did was WRONG, but not impeachable."

Trump is FURIOUS with that claim. Ha ha.
I heard GOP Senator John Kennedy say yesterday that his mind is open on removal, depending on the evidence. Modest progress. Surely better than Lindsey Graham’s deplorable “it’s all BS/I won’t even read the transcripts” approach.
 
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