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I don't like this new era..

Saladin2

Senator
Supporting Member
http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/19/politics/obama-to-us-dont-succumb-to-that-fear-following-suspected-bombing-incidents/index.html

Bombing in the street (Chelsea)
elsewhere a pressure cooker bomb
suspect and terror cells
pipe bombs
mass shootings (san bernadino, etc)
more bombs (race site,..)
stabbings..

pretty bleak times... no?
Since 9/11 there have actually been very few incidents by "Islamic radicals" compared to thousands and thousands of shootings and Gun mayhem around the country.Of course each one gets massive coverage but ultimately affects few Americans.Still the fear and paranoia they bring out weighs the event itself
 

PhilFish

Administrator
Staff member
Since 9/11 there have actually been very few incidents by "Islamic radicals" compared to thousands and thousands of shootings and Gun mayhem around the country.Of course each one gets massive coverage but ultimately affects few Americans.Still the fear and paranoia they bring out weighs the event itself
true. doesnt make it any less discomfiting though..
 
http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/19/politics/obama-to-us-dont-succumb-to-that-fear-following-suspected-bombing-incidents/index.html

Bombing in the street (Chelsea)
elsewhere a pressure cooker bomb
suspect and terror cells
pipe bombs
mass shootings (san bernadino, etc)
more bombs (race site,..)
stabbings..

pretty bleak times... no?
The idea is for us to "get used to it", like they did in France. As long as Democrats are in power, near-daily radical Islamic terror attacks, IEDs, random knife attacks, anti-Semitic hate crimes, etc. are here to stay.
 

Saladin2

Senator
Supporting Member
The idea is for us to "get used to it", like they did in France. As long as Democrats are in power, near-daily radical Islamic terror attacks, IEDs, random knife attacks, anti-Semitic hate crimes, etc. are here to stay.
Yeah nothing happened under Bush......Sure
 

Jen

Senator
http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/19/politics/obama-to-us-dont-succumb-to-that-fear-following-suspected-bombing-incidents/index.html

Bombing in the street (Chelsea)
elsewhere a pressure cooker bomb
suspect and terror cells
pipe bombs
mass shootings (san bernadino, etc)
more bombs (race site,..)
stabbings..

pretty bleak times... no?
That is what comes of an administration that won't even call the enemy by name and describes acts of war as "workplace violence".

Weak.

We have become weakened for the past 8 years.

We need to be strong again............. We need to stand up against Radical Islamic Terrorism. Period.
 

Saladin2

Senator
Supporting Member
That is what comes of an administration that won't even call the enemy by name and describes acts of war as "workplace violence".

Weak.

We have become weakened for the past 8 years.

We need to be strong again............. We need to stand up against Radical Islamic Terrorism. Period.
Yeah Trump will make everything better...LOL...What a joke
 

Jen

Senator
Yeah Trump will make everything better...LOL...What a joke
That's an unknown.
What IS known is that Hillary will most certainly NOT make anything better.
When something doesn't work, how long do YOU keep trying the same thing hoping for a different result?
 
C

Capitalist

Guest
Yeah. Aurora,Tucson,Newtown,Charleston,Dallas. :(
None of which have anything to do with New York, New York, Boston, New York, and New Jersey.

I noticed you didn't say anything about Chicago, Chicago, and Chicago x 1000. Why is that?
 

Arkady

President
http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/19/politics/obama-to-us-dont-succumb-to-that-fear-following-suspected-bombing-incidents/index.html

Bombing in the street (Chelsea)
elsewhere a pressure cooker bomb
suspect and terror cells
pipe bombs
mass shootings (san bernadino, etc)
more bombs (race site,..)
stabbings..

pretty bleak times... no?
No. I think we're living in the best time in all of history. I realize that's a counter-intuitive position, but I think it's supported by the facts.

Yes, there have been some terrorist attacks and other acts of mass violence. But are we really less safe overall? No. We're a lot safer today.

Let's compare to a time most of us remember pretty well: 1999. In 1999, the murder rate was 5.7 per 100k in this country. For the last two years, it's been 4.5 (2014 is the most recent on record). So, there used to be 1.2 more murders for every 100,000 people in this country. Given that the current population is a little under 325 million, that means that if things in this country went back to being as violent as they were in 1999, we'd have 3,900 more people being murdered per year!

And 1999 wasn't even that bad. What if we went back to the kind of violence we had in the bad old days of the early 1990s, at the end of the Reagan/Bush socioeconomic catastrophe? Back then, murder rates were 9.8/100k. At that rate, we'd have over 17,000 more murders per year than we have today. Short of suffering a 9/11-magnitude terrorist attack every other month, terrorism and mass shootings just aren't a meaningful factor relative to that improvement.

That's just the tip of the iceberg, when it comes to how things have improved in the modern era. Take foreign affairs. In the late Bush years, we lost as many as 1,021 of our fellow citizens in a single year to combat in Iraq and Afghanistan. In 2016, that figure is 17. And even the bloodbath of the Bush years doesn't stack up to what we saw in earlier eras. We lost almost 17,000 in a single year during the Vietnam War. Korea was similarly deadly, and WWI and WWII had much higher death tolls per year.

Then there are issues like how much better health care and nutrition are today. When you throw it all together, life expectancy in the US has risen about three and a half years in this country just since the early 90s. And it's not just that we're living longer and healthier. We're also better educated and wealthier. Median household incomes are higher than at almost any point in our nation's history, and real GDP per capita has never been higher. In fact, the improvement is dramatic. Real GDP per capita is very nearly 50% higher than when Reagan left office.

And, of course, when you compare this new era to any other point in our history, there's now greater freedom and justice. It was just a couple years ago that gay couples couldn't get married, not long before that gays could be jailed just for having sex, just a few decades ago black people and white people couldn't get married in many states and there was legal segregation of the races throughout the south, and within the lifetimes of some alive today, over half the US population had no right to vote in elections.

So, if you don't like this new era, which would you prefer?
 
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PhilFish

Administrator
Staff member
No. I think we're living in the best time in all of history. I realize that's a counter-intuitive position, but I think it's supported by the facts.

Yes, there have been some terrorist attacks and other acts of mass violence. But are we really less safe because of it? No. We're a lot safer today.

Let's compare to a time most of us remember pretty well: 1999. In 1999, the murder rate was 5.7 per 100k in this country. For the last two years, it's been 4.5 (2014 is the most recent on record). So, there used to be 1.2 more murders for every 100,000 people in this country. Given that the current population is a little under 325 million, that means that if things in this country went back to being as violent as they were in 1999, we'd have 3,900 more people being murdered per year!

And 1999 wasn't even that bad. What if we went back to the kind of violence we had in the bad old days of the early 1990s, at the end of the Reagan/Bush socioeconomic catastrophe? Back then, murder rates were 9.8/100k. At that rate, we'd have over 17,000 more murders per year than we have today. Short of suffering a 9/11-magnitude terrorist attack every other month, terrorism and mass shootings just aren't a meaningful factor relative to that improvement.

That's just the tip of the iceberg, when it comes to how things have improved in the modern era. Take foreign affairs. In the late Bush years, we lost as many as 1,021 of our fellow citizens in a single year to combat in Iraq and Afghanistan. In 2016, that figure is 17. And even the bloodbath of the Bush years doesn't stack up to what we saw in earlier eras. We lost almost 17,000 in a single year during the Vietnam War. Korea was similarly deadly, and WWI and WWII had much higher death tolls per year.

Then there are issues like how much better health care and nutrition are today. When you throw it all together, life expectancy in the US has risen about three and a half years in this country just since the early 90s. And it's not just that we're living longer and healthier. We're also better educated and wealthier. Median household incomes are higher than at almost any point in our nation's history, and real GDP per capita has never been higher. In fact, the improvement is dramatic. Real GDP per capita is very nearly 50% higher than when Reagan left office.

And, of course, when you compare this new era to any other point in our history, there's now greater freedom and justice. It was just a couple years ago that gay couples couldn't get married, not long before that gays could be jailed just for having sex, just a few decades ago black people and white people couldn't get married in many states and there was legal segregation of the races throughout the south, and within the lifetimes of some alive today, over half the US population had no right to vote in elections.

So, if you don't like this new era, which would you prefer?
easy. one which does not find pressure cookers wired with explosives hidden in heavily trafficked public areas..
 

Arkady

President
easy. one which does not find pressure cookers wired with explosives hidden in heavily trafficked public areas..
I asked you a direct question. Why not provide a direct answer? Which era, specifically?

Keep in mind, we've had terrorism in this country for pretty much the whole of the modern era -- going right back to the age of the "bomb throwing anarchists."



And we're not just talking little acts like this one, that managed not to kill anyone. Not all that long ago we had about 3,000 killed in a single terrorist attack, and not long before that 168 were killed in the Oklahoma City attack, and not long before that 241 of our countrymen were killed in the Beruit bombing, etc. Terrorism with explosives had been a fact of modern life ever since there have been widely available explosives.

Now, of course, we can imagine some make-believe era when there were no pressure cooker bombs, but there also weren't much higher murder rates than today, nor mass lynchings of "uppity" minorities, nor near-genocide of Native Americans, nor working of slaves to death, etc. But if we're going to move away from our imaginations and look just to the real world, is this really a bleak era, as you suggested? I don't think so -- not in context. I think all in all, it's the best time to be alive.

Would it be better to be in the early 1990s or early 1980s, with murder rates so high that it would be like having six 9/11-magnitude terrorist attacks happening every single year? I don't think so. Compared to that, having an occasional pressure cooker bomb go off is a walk in the park.
 

Arkady

President
It's @Arkady's Golden Age of IEDs.
Which era would you prefer, specifically?

I suppose we can say we're living in bleak times, but in that case every other period in history was a whole lot bleaker. All things considered, people in this country have never been safer, in our entire history.
 
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PhilFish

Administrator
Staff member
I asked you a direct question. Why not provide a direct answer? Which era, specifically?

Keep in mind, we've had terrorism in this country for pretty much the whole of the modern era -- going right back to the age of the "bomb throwing anarchists."



And we're not just talking little acts like this one, that managed not to kill anyone. Not all that long ago we had about 3,000 killed in a single terrorist attack, and not long before that 168 were killed in the Oklahoma City attack, and not long before that 241 of our countrymen were killed in the Beruit bombing, etc. Terrorism with explosives had been a fact of modern life ever since there have been widely available explosives.

Now, of course, we can imagine some make-believe era when there were no pressure cooker bombs, but there also weren't much higher murder rates than today, nor mass lynchings of "uppity" minorities, nor near-genocide of Native Americans, nor slavery, etc. But if we're going to move away from our imaginations and look just to the real world, is this really a bleak era, as you suggested? I don't think so -- not in context. I think all in all, it's the best time to be alive.

Would it be better to be in the early 1990s or early 1980s, with murder rates so high that it would be like having six 9/11-magnitude terrorist attacks happening every single year? I don't think so. Compared to that, having an occasional pressure cooker bomb go off is a walk in the park.
i said i didnt like it. didnt comment on its state. anyhoo, not much for haymarket square-esque scenes, or middle east scenes of random shit blowing up on city streets.. i'll settle for safety and security
 

Arkady

President
i'll settle for safety and security
Hey, who wouldn't? But that's the point: We're closer to safety and security, at this moment, than any Americans ever were.

What are the risks today? You have some infinitesimal risk of being a victim of terrorism, but when hasn't that been true? There have always been terrorists, but when it comes to the big picture, safety and security have improved drastically. Consider, by decade:

2000s: Higher murder rates than today. 9/11 attack. Much higher KIAs in Afghanistan and Iraq.

1990s: Higher murder rates than today. OK City attack. Height of the AIDS crisis.

1980s: Higher murder rates than today. AIDS. Crack epidemic.

1970s: Higher murder rates than today. Risk of being drafted and sent to die in Vietnam

1960s: Higher murder rates than today. Risk of being drafted and sent to die in Vietnam

1950s: Risk of being drafted and sent to die in Korea. Much higher poverty rates, especially for blacks.

1940s: Risk of being drafted and sent to die in WWII

1930s: Great Depression, Dust Bowl, mass lynchings

1920s: Gangland violence, mass lynchings

1910s: Risk of being drafted and sent to die in WWI. Mass lynchings.

1900s: Death trap factories. No product-safety or food-safety regulations. Mass lynchings.

Get back to the late 1800s, you have Indian raids in rural areas and deathtrap cities with cholera, etc. Mass lynchings, too. Mid 1800s and before you have a series of horribly deadly wars fought on our own soil (Civil War, 1812, Revolution, all sorts of Indian wars).

I think you could go back to any other point in our history and talk to our ancestors and if they were well-informed, they'd all swap places with us when it came to "safety and security." This is the safest and most secure time in American history, and generally the safest and most secure time globally, too.
 
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