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If it is okay to hate...

Discussion in 'Economics, Business, and Taxes' started by Lukey, Mar 14, 2016.

  1. marvin martian

    marvin martian Senator

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    Most, if not all, of them can't even tell the difference between an immigrant and an illegal immigrant. You're asking way too much of the simple-minded DemoKKKrat.
     
  2. TheResister

    TheResister Council Member

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    Let's tell the truth and bring out the crackpots. They are chomping at the bit for this response:

    Any person who wastes their time talking about crime among so - called "illegal" aliens probably is a racist. When most of these people say "illegal" alien they are conjuring up images of little brown people from south of the border. Meanwhile, the mass murders in this country are being done by the aliens of a legal variety. So, which of them is posing the real danger?

    While it is against the law to enter the United States without the proper documentation, entry is a civil matter, NOT a criminal one. So, if you're wasting your time denouncing the crimes an undocumented immigrant commits, you may as well denounce the other crimes the people who make improper U Turns make.

    People come into this country because the American people willingly offer jobs, credit, housing, etc. It's more about Liberty, free trade, etc. If you don't want the foreigners to come, don't offer them jobs; don't rent to them; don't buy from them; don't shop at businesses that employ them. Whatever you do, DON'T ask Uncle Scam to pass laws to protect you from yourself.

    Now here come the flames...
     
  3. Liquid Reigns

    Liquid Reigns Council Member

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    This is hilarity at its best, you start out by claiming to want to bring out the truth and then you start lying and making incorrect statements as though they are true:
    Any person who wastes their time talking about crime among so - called "illegal" aliens probably is a racist. When most of these people say "illegal" alien they are conjuring up images of little brown people from south of the border.
    Which really is nothing more than those advocating amnesty to portray those against amnesty as racist, since the term "illegal alien" actually covers more than just those that entered via without inspection; it includes those that entered legally and overstayed their visas that have orders of deportation against them, too.

    Your next incorrect statement is as follows:
    While it is against the law to enter the United States without the proper documentation, entry is a civil matter, NOT a criminal one.
    Immigration is a federal matter, at no point is it a "civil matter". Beings it is a federal matter, 8USC1325(a) is tried in Federal District Courts, which are in fact criminal courts. Thus Entry Without Inspection is a criminal violation of Federal Law.

    http://www.justice.gov/sites/default...-1877.resp.pdf
    QUESTION PRESENTED
    Whether an alien who pleads guilty to a criminal charge of entering the United States unlawfully and without inspection, in violation of 8 U.S.C. 1325(a), is collaterally estopped from re-litigating in a later deportation proceeding the issue of whether he entered the United States.
    ...
    2. On July 22, 1991, the United States filed a criminal complaint against petitioner in the United States District Court for the Southern District of California, charging him with misdemeanor unlawful entry into the United States in violation of 8U.S.C.1325.

    Your lies and incorrect claims make your comment look, well, ignorant.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2016
  4. TheResister

    TheResister Council Member

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    Liquid Reigns,

    You've challenged me on how many boards and lost this debate? How many have you been banned for when you couldn't win with a well reasoned response as opposed to the questionable tactics you employ?

    You have resorted to name calling, lying, making this a personal issue, and worse. So, I will answer Liquid Reigns on this ONCE. After that, if someone else wants additional proof, I'll be glad to help them out.

    The federal government is well known to misapply laws; to prosecute innocent people; to malign the laws.

    I checked that link Reigns provided. It didn't work. There was a 1991 case that went to the appeals court and the government lost. But I digress. I want you to suppose that Reigns is right. Now, rather than criticize me, answer my questions for once.

    1) Title 8 USC 1325 NEVER imposes any criminal penalty without citing Title 18 (EIGHTEEN) of the U.S. Code. IF Title 8 is criminal law, how come you suppose that U.S. Rep. James Sensenbrenner (a Congressman, attorney AND a TEA Party Republican) introduced a bill to make Improper Entry a crime? Check this link out and look closely at Section 203:

    https://www.congress.gov/bill/109th-congress/house-bill/4437

    If Title 8 USC 1325 is a crime, how come you need another law to change the wording to make it a crime???? Are the TEA Party attorneys and politicians that stupid?????

    2) If Title 8 USC 1325 is a crime, how come when you look at the section Liquid Reigns wants you to see it references Title 18 of the United States Code? And let's be accurate here. Let's look at the relevant portion:

    (3) "attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both."

    Note that section 3 is confined to a single statute that has NOTHING to do with improper entry. It has to do with willfully false or misleading statements AND section 3 of 8 USC 1325 references Title 18 for the criminal portion. Now let's read Title 18:

    (a) Except as otherwise provided in this section, whoever, in any matter within the jurisdiction of the executive, legislative, or judicial branch of the Government of the United States, knowingly and willfully—
    (1)
    falsifies, conceals, or covers up by any trick, scheme, or device a material fact;

    (2)
    makes any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or representation; or

    (3)
    makes or uses any false writing or document knowing the same to contain any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or entry
    ;

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1001

    There is no Improper Entry in Title 18.

    Okay, so Pedro slips into the U.S. Nobody catches him. Later, if he's caught and he does not lie; does not use false papers; does not try to pretend he is married to an American; doesn't offer phony papers, he cannot be tried for a criminal offense. Period - End of story.

    OTOH, if Pedro eludes authorities, lies to the authorities, provides false paperwork, claims he has American relatives that anchors him to the U.S. or anything covered in Title 18, he will tried under Title 18 for the crimes AND given a civil fine to pay then be deported in accordance with Title 8 USC 1325.

    Reigns is now on my ignore list, so somebody else can make the case.
     
  5. Liquid Reigns

    Liquid Reigns Council Member

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    The only board I was banned from was politicalforum, and it wasn't because of you. SMFH What argument is it that I haven't "won".

    LMFAO

    The link works just fine. What 1991 case went to the appeals court and lost? You have a bad habit of making claims without linking to those very claims. SMFH

    The bill proposed was to add visa overstay as a crime, since it isn't even after an order of deportation is issued.

    Section 203 from your link makes "illegal presence" a crime.
    (Sec. 203) Makes illegal U.S. presence a crime.

    Increases prison penalties for first-time improper U.S. entry. Expands: (1) penalties for marriage and immigration-related entrepreneurship fraud; and (2) criminal penalties imposed upon aliens who illegally enter the United States or who are present illegally following convictions of certain crimes.​

    It doesn't say anything about improper entry other than to increase the prison penalty (more than 6 months first offense and more then 2 years for second offense) and impose greater criminal penalties if they have been convicted of certain other crimes prior. SMFH at your shear stupidity.

    There is no "other" law to change the wording to make it (improper entry) a crime, 203 merely adds to 8usc1325 making illegal presence a crime (visa overstay). I'm betting it isn't the TEA Party attorneys and politicians that are stupid, rather it is you.

    Why do you skip sections 1 and 2? Do you not know how to actually read the law?
    (a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection; misrepresentation and concealment of facts
    Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or (2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.​
    That pesky little word "or" kinda calls you a moron. up to 6 months in jail is an automatic Misdemeanor, up to 2 years in jail is an automatic Felony.

    And then we have section B of 8USC1325.
    (b) Improper time or place; civil penalties. Any alien who is apprehended while entering (or attempting to enter) the United States at a time or place other than as designated by immigration officers shall be subject to a civil penalty of—
    (1)
    at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such entry (or attempted entry); or
    (2)
    twice the amount specified in paragraph (1) in the case of an alien who has been previously subject to a civil penalty under this subsection.

    Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be imposed.​


    See above, especially that little word "or" in 8USC1325.

    18USC19 - Petty Offense
    https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/19
    Since 8USC1325 is a Federal Law, Improper Entry is a Petty Offense and is tried as a petty offense. Sorry, you fail as usual.

    And yet he can be tried and as my prior link shows, for 8USC1325(a). Here is another showing you that you don't have the first clue as to what you are claiming or stating.
    https://www.justice.gov/usao-mdpa/pr/three-charged-improper-entry-united-states
    The United States Attorney’s Office for the Middle District of Pennsylvania and the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, Immigrations and Customs Enforcement, announced that three individuals were charged with being in the United States illegally in separate cases.
    According to United States Attorney Peter J. Smith, Informations were filed Monday against: Adolfo Lopez-Perez, age 24, and Antonio Rios, age 42, natives and citizens of Mexico, both found in Adams County and Tomas Justino Mercado-Mendoza, age 26, a native and citizen of El Salvador, found in York County. The three came to the attention of authorities after eluding examination or inspection by immigration officers.​
    Wow, in Pennsylvania.....how far is that from the southern border? SMFH at your shear stupidity.

    Again 18USC19 says you don't know jack shit about basic law, but then again, I have known that since your first claims of you espousing you have 6 years immigration law experience. LMFAO watafuknmoron

    All of your questions have been answered and you have been shown to be a moron. You will find all agree with me, accept activists that are like you that are ignorant to the actual law.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2016
  6. TheResister

    TheResister Council Member

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    I don't even have to open up to ignored content to guess at what Liquid Reigns said in his response. Here is the proof, however, that he is lying to the posters here.

    I've asked the question many times about why Section 203 was put into the bill HR 4437. Liquid knows that lost democrats are the ones who believe a vote will determine the truth. In this case, it won't.

    Let me quote the relevant section of HR 4437

    "203. IMPROPER ENTRY BY, OR PRESENCE OF, ALIENS.

    Section 275 of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1325)
    is amended--
    (1) in the section heading, by inserting ``unlawful
    presence;'' after ``improper time or place
    ;'';
    (2) in subsection (a)--
    (A) by striking ``Any alien'' and inserting
    ``Except as provided in subsection (b), any alien'';
    (B) by striking ``or'' before (3);
    (C) by inserting after ``concealment of a material
    fact,
    ''..."

    We can argue about it all day long, but the people who are at the top of the heap disagree with Reigns. Here are the words of TWO former U.S. Attorneys that worked with immigration cases. BOTH men are connected to Trump and his campaign:

    "Being an illegal immigrant "is not a crime" and shouldn't be, Republican presidential contender Rudy Giuliani said yesterday, drawing quick fire from GOP opponent Mitt Romney.

    "No, it shouldn't be," Giuliani told talk-show host Glenn Beck when asked if living in the country illegally should be a crime, "because the government wouldn't be able to prosecute it
    ."

    http://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/rudy-giuliani-illegal-immigrant-not-crime-article-1.244055

    "Being in this country without proper documentation is not a crime," Christie told more than 60 residents and town officials. "The whole phrase of 'illegal immigrant' connotes that the person, by just being here, is committing a crime."

    "Being undocumented may be a civil wrong, but it's not a criminal act, (Chris) Christie said."

    http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/2008/04/immigrants_and_their_advocates.html

    In the last FIFTEEN YEARS the people who believe the left wing horseshit that the pretenders like Reigns and his ilk want you to believe have not been successful in passing one, single, solitary law that addresses immigration without taking an unalienable Right from you.

    It's time to address the issue with some common sense. In telling you the law, it does not make me a liberal - and Reigns sides with libs many times. I'm telling you the truth. The law is what the law is.
     
  7. Liquid Reigns

    Liquid Reigns Council Member

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    All 203 is doing is adding "unlawful presence", which would make visa overstay a crime. The people at the top of the heap are calling you can idiot. SMFH

    Neither Christie nor Guiliani ever worked on immigration cases. State Attorneys are not involved in immigration cases, immigration cases are federal jurisdiction, not state. Both are quoted in discussion of visa overstays. Christie even had to clarify his remarks, Guiliani states that No, it shouldn't be," pertaining to "living" in the country, otherwise known as "illegal presence" which is what section 203 would be turning into a crime. As to Christie, why is it you always fail to link to his clarifications, where he himself states: Monday, Christie said that while entering the country illegally is considered a federal misdemeanor, simply lacking legal immigration status is a civil violation.
    http://www.nj.com/morristown/index.ssf/2008/04/christie_clarifies_illegal_imm.html

    What "unalienable right" has been taken? LMFAO at your shear stupidity

    That's right, the law is what the law is, to bad you don't understand how that law is stated or what others have stated, I Mean with your vast law experience that you claim to have you should be able to at least get the basics of law right, yet you haven't shown yourself to even be able to do that.
     
  8. TheResister

    TheResister Council Member

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    You asked the question and then left your thread to the paid shill that wants to make this a private pissing match between he and I.

    On the average, so - called "illegal immigrants" are not the ones posing a threat to you. It's the "legal" (sic) variety you have to watch out for. Coming into the United States without papers is not a crime. We've pretty much established that from a factual point. So, why hate on a group of people that are not as dangerous as the "legal" variety???

    If the truth be told, America is not a position where they can trust ANY foreigner. Everybody who comes here does so because Americans want everything done now and they want it at the most cut rate cost possible. But, when so many of these people hate our guts, it's not prudent to invite them here... legally, illegally, properly, improperly, or any other way.

    Public employees do us a disservice because we haven't learned how to operate at the local level and get rid of them. The one that really makes me mad is the guy with "Code Enforcement." This douchebag likes to drive around after a few days of rain and write tickets for people whose grass is over six inches long. Talk about someone that needs to get out and get a life!

    There is a way to address your concerns - it's just it isn't here so I'll save the lesson for the proper forum.
     
  9. TheResister

    TheResister Council Member

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    Are you aware of the kinds of information your congresscritters are privy to? Do you know what they read or listen to? It's not the rantings of right wing radio nor the dow dung by the shills of the left. Here is a sample of what your representatives are seeing:

    http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2...-immigrants-commit-less-crime-than-americans/

    http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1717575,00.html

    http://isites.harvard.edu/fs/docs/icb.topic1141175.files/Waters-Simes.Politics of Immigration and Crime.forthcoming chapter.pdf
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  10. Liquid Reigns

    Liquid Reigns Council Member

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    You haven't established shit you [Unwelcome language removed] idiot. Entry without inspection is a crime, that is, coming into the US without papers, is a crime. Do you even understand what "illegal presence" is? It is simply being here past your visa expiration date, that is not a crime because they can still apply to adjust their status simply because they entered legally. watafuknmoron

    Is that why you would rather hire illegals than pay an actual contractor to do the work correctly, because you're a cheap ass?

    You'll save the lesson? LMFAO watafuknidiot
     
  11. Liquid Reigns

    Liquid Reigns Council Member

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    Your third link shows just how stupid you are. LMFAO
    Undocumented immigrants are called “illegal aliens” and many, if not most, Americans believe that it is a crime to exist in the United States as an undocumented immigrant.1​
    So now lets look to what it cites.
    1 It is indeed a crime to enter or reenter the country illegally (U.S. Code Section 1326). However, residing in the U.S. as an undocumented person is actually a civil offense, not a criminal offense. In 1996, U.S. Congress passed the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act, (IIRIRA), which imposes civil penalties on any legal aliens staying in the United States overstaying their visa. To date, there are no criminal penalties associated with overstaying one’s visa.​
    Again, it states exactly as I have stated, Entry without inspection is a crime, staying here beyond your visa is not a crime.

    You really should learn how to read and comprehend the basics of the English language, you wouldn't make yourself look so stupid. LMFAO

    Lets look at your first link now:
    The new study found that “the wright of evidence suggests that immigration is not related to more crime.” It’s all about a mistaken perception, according to researchers. “The public consistently perceives immigrants, especially undocumented immigrants, as criminal,” Professor Wang says. Could it be because they have violated U.S. law by entering and living in the country illegally? Not surprisingly, that crucial fact is never considered by this group of academics.
    What? This link points out that entering illegally is a crime that is left out of the study? LMFAO
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2016
  12. georgephillip

    georgephillip Governor

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    Because a single "compensated psychopath" who displays the shallow emotions, utter absence of empathy, guilt, or remorse, glibness and superficial charm, manipulativeness, inconsistency, deceitfulness, lying, and grandiose sense of self-worth can destroy the lives of thousands of innocent victims.
    [​IMG]

    http://whale.to/b/psychopath34.html

    "Lacking any genuine remorse, psychopaths also lack the motivation to change. It's generally thought that not only do psychopaths not get better with treatment, they actually get worse because they learn how to better manipulate the system, as well as the clinicians who try to treat them.

    "According to Robert Hare, 'Administrators actually took it to mean that not only are they not treatable, but if they're going to be worse, let's do everybody the service of not treating them.'

    "Dr. Hare believes in developing a good treatment plan; there just isn't one yet.

    "The term Antisocial Personality Disorder (ASPD) was originally meant to replace the charged (and not clearly distinguishable) terms psychopath and sociopath to describe psychopathy, but Dr. Hare argues convincingly that ASPD and psychopathy are in reality, by their actual definitions, describing different disorders.

    "The incidence of ASPD has been estimated at 3% in males and 1% in females, while the rate of psychopathy is about 20% to 50% of the rate of ASPD.

    "With 300 million people, the United States therefore has a range of roughly 1.2 to 3 million psychopaths within it's borders in 2006, and because there are fewer than 100 (clearly dangerous) serial killers, this suggests that about 1.2 to 3 million other socially dangerous psychopaths, existing on a continuum of varying degrees of severity, are wreaking their havoc in countless other devastating and socially dangerous ways."
    -
    The Psychopaths Are Winning:(
     
  13. Lukey

    Lukey Senator

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  14. georgephillip

    georgephillip Governor

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    Your link:

    "Psychopathy is a psychological condition based on well-established diagnostic criteria, which include lack of remorse and empathy, a sense of grandiosity, superficial charm, conning and manipulative behavior, and refusal to take responsibility for one's actions, among others. Psychopaths are not all the same; particular aspects may predominate in different people. And, although some psychopaths are violent men (and women) with long criminal histories, not all are. It's important to understand that psychopathic behavior and affect exist on a continuum; there are those who fall into the grey area between 'normal' people and true psychopaths."

    P$ychopath$ are motivated and enhanced by private fortunes.
    Tax private fortunes into extinction.
    No more p$ychopath$
    [​IMG]
    :p
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Lukey

    Lukey Senator

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    You seem to struggle with the certainty that doing away with powerful private sector psychopaths only enhances the power of the public sector ones. And THEY are the truly scary ones...
     
  16. georgephillip

    georgephillip Governor

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    Which psychopath scares you more:
    1. Ted Cruz
    2. Charles and David Koch
    ???
     
  17. TheResister

    TheResister Council Member

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    Donald Trump
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. Lukey

    Lukey Senator

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    Cruz for sure!!! The Kochs have created billions in wealth and employ 100,000 Americans.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  19. georgephillip

    georgephillip Governor

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    [​IMG]
    "This declassified document which looks like it was printed originally in The New Yorker (?) tells a horrid story of the Kochs trying to hide all the benzene they feed into the atmosphere, how they got one senator to convince people that getting rid of ozone would cause more skin cancers and so many other things that they have done. The kind of things that make it hard for me to sleep at night."
    http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027280680
    Psychopaths like Cruz and Clinton would never reach public office without the help of congenital Psychopaths like the Koch brothers, imho:mad:
     
  20. Lukey

    Lukey Senator

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    OMG! You mean they are small government CONSERVATIVES??? Why didn't you say so, man? That automatically makes them dangerous radicals!!!

    :mad:

    Um, seriously, 75 years of business, tens of billions in wealth created, a hundred thousand jobs created, and they only have like three events in their history that the left can find to bash them with? I think that says they are exemplary upstanding business men.
     

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