I'm not fond of quoting news articles but this bears a read.
- Thread starter TaiPan
- Start date
MaryAnne
Governor
Well,Bill is my moron. Not my fault you do not like to think or hear the truth!
I do!
MaryAnne
Governor
You had tests,but you also had homework and class work you were graded on.It was not all tests.Today Teachers teach to the test and the children are short changed because they do teach to the test. The Semester test was not all of your grade. And we had numbers,95,90,85, etc.
In my school you were also graded on Deportment and a lot of that had to do with attitude.
MaryAnne
Governor
Bull S***,Jack! All your answers revolve around Unions. Most who hate Unions sure do enjoy the 40 hour work week,Over time, Vacation,Health Care they provided for you!
Oh Jack, you are a living joy when you are off your lorazepam. Teachers have unions, for the same reason autoworkers or railroad workers do. Those unions are not the cause of the problem they are the result of years of neglect, abuse, and crap that teachers had to put up with in low paying, unrecognized and unappreciated jobs, shitty working conditions, out of date text books, interfering political hacks and despotic religious leaders, and an indifferent citizenry.
Give states full control of education ? Are you smoking loco weed again ? If I had the influence, I would establish a national mandatory curriculum, require all schools to use the same text book to teach that curriculum and then create the standardized test to measure progress on a true national level. The problem with school curricula today is that it varies from state to state, that the levels of achievement necessary to meet state graduation requirement differs from state to state, text books differ from state to state, facilities and expenditure per child differ from state to state. There is no coherency in the process. Now before you blow up like a toad and fart yourself a new whole in your recliner, I am talking here about core educational courses, English, Math, Reading, History (US/World) Sciences, both Natural and Empirical, etc. Each state can teach its own history, it can require as much or as little Health and PE as its wants, arts and sports can be local discretion. But what this country desperately needs is a set of National Minimum Elementary and Secondary Educational Standards of Achievement. If we want better education in this country, we have to stop thinking and acting like a kid in Podunck has different core educational needs than his counterpart in Boston. If we want to teach for success in a "smaller" more competitive world then we have to have some on insuring that the product is consistent. You can't do that with 50 chefs and 10s of thousand of cooks stirring a million pots.
I've spent 100's of hours on this topic, with educators, business people, ordinary citizens, and at the end of the day, when the cards are on the table, most agree we are heading in the wrong direction, and that rather than increasing local options, we need to step up to plate and demand so consistency in the direction of education. What they get and you don't is that a degree from a high school in Silver Springs, Florida should represent the same core skill acquisition & achievement as a degree from a high school in Redmond, Washington.(home of Microsoft) When you have that, then this country will be able to score much better than it currently does. Here's a link to an OECD by country ranking of the performance of students on standardized testing of skill levels in 4 areas of academic achievement:http://www.geographic.org/country_ranks/educational_score_performance_country_ranks_2009_oecd.html So you know what you are measuring against, many of those country have educational benchmarks set a the national level.
Spare me the outrage and the bullshit states rights arguments Jack, when it comes to the education of the children of the United States, we should be demanding the best, and getting it out of the hands of people who have failed miserably to deliver.
Tai Pan
I would do away with ALL public sector Unions.
Then who would pick up your garbage, answer your 911 call or issue traffic tickets to tourists ? Wrong solution Jack. BTW I think it was Warren Harding who first extended that right, but it might have been Rutherford B Hayes. Calvin Coolidge didn't much like it though.
Tai Pan
My problem is that every time I hear someone say, or read where someone has written, "Start over," I always see a subtext that takes away local control.
I wish I had better solutions. I went to a rural school district that was academically very good. These inner-city schools where there are both cultural and economic difficulties are a serious issue without an obvious solution.
Invariably, people say there needs to be more money -- but I'm from Missouri where more money was tried in a major way. A federal judge forced the state of Missouri to siphon $2 billion in money away from the entire rest of the state in the name of integrating the Kansas City public school system. They built palatial schools, "magnet" schools with courses of study in Latin and French, Olympic size swimming pools, and higher teacher salaries. Unfortunately, the magnets didn't attract the white suburban students they were designed to attract.
And meanwhile, the performance of students from the schools fell of sufficiently that the district lost its accreditation. The pharmaceutical millionaire Ewing Kaufmann sweetened the pot by offering a free college education to anyone who graduated from certain schools in the district who wanted to go to college. It went unclaimed.
So, testing isn't the answer. Money isn't the answer. What is? Got me.
I wish I had better solutions. I went to a rural school district that was academically very good. These inner-city schools where there are both cultural and economic difficulties are a serious issue without an obvious solution.
Invariably, people say there needs to be more money -- but I'm from Missouri where more money was tried in a major way. A federal judge forced the state of Missouri to siphon $2 billion in money away from the entire rest of the state in the name of integrating the Kansas City public school system. They built palatial schools, "magnet" schools with courses of study in Latin and French, Olympic size swimming pools, and higher teacher salaries. Unfortunately, the magnets didn't attract the white suburban students they were designed to attract.
And meanwhile, the performance of students from the schools fell of sufficiently that the district lost its accreditation. The pharmaceutical millionaire Ewing Kaufmann sweetened the pot by offering a free college education to anyone who graduated from certain schools in the district who wanted to go to college. It went unclaimed.
So, testing isn't the answer. Money isn't the answer. What is? Got me.
I know I'm going to be crucified for this, but to an extent I not only agree with you, but I understand what you are saying. Money spent wastefully isn't the answer, and standardized testing without a coherent curricula isn't either. But consider this, the reason standardized testing is such a waste of time, is that you are trying to measure a standard set of accomplishments for which you haven't created a mandatory set of tasks to be successfully completed. What you need for standardized testing to work properly is to insure that 1+1=2 is the same in Maine as it is in Hawaii. When it isn't you don't have anything to measure. When spelling for example, is taught using phonics in Louisiana, but phonics is not part of the curriculum in Illinois, which may be using rote memorization, are you measuring the achievement of the student or the success of the teaching methodology ? Without some consistency in what is taught and how it is taught, you are testing the method not the student. So first let's define what needs to be taught and the method at the gross level, by which it will be taught. Now in just a minute I expect to hear the hew and cry of those who are going to be saying "You can't do that, every child is different, blah, blah, blah." To that I say bullshit. The armed forces of just about every nation on earth does exactly that in basic training. There is ONE manual that defines the task, sets out the course of instruction, and the skill levels to be successfully acquired. Each instructor may have his own style, but style isn't substance. A marine at Parris Island is going to get the same course of instruction as a marine in San Diego. This is what we need to insure in our schools. To do that local school boards have to give up some measure of autonomy. They can't be making some of the big decisions anymore. The problem with total local control is that there is a certain myopia inherent in the process. Only when one removes the "local considerations" can you create a atmosphere where the good of the whole can be considered. Take textbooks for example, did you know that the textbooks used in your local schools may be result of a decision made in Texas. Because of the size of the Texas school system, the books it chooses are simply rubber stamped for use in about 25 states. Same with the books California uses and New York. The reason for this is simple it takes time to produce textbooks, and they are a large capital investment. So the big order gets the attention of the printing houses. Now let's say for instance that your state is one of the ones who rubber stamps the Texas order, not the federal government, but some bunch of yahoos in Texas are determining to a large extent, the content of your child's education. Frankly that worries me, because some of those Texans are people with real serious agenda problems. Why not transfer that to a broader and more diverse group of people ? A national board and task them with the responsibility to do the choosing, and give the local boards a choice of say 4-6 textbooks for each subject. I also believe at that level, you'd get a better product, because the focus would be much clearer than whether or not you include the story about how Aunt Jenny whipped the whole Union Army at Calamity Crossing in 1863.
Money, ah yes money. It is easy to see why money is a big problem. It's there but is it being correctly spent> I'd like to see administrative overhead cut by 25% across the board.Back in the good old days you had a principal, maybe a vice principal, a secretary, and a maintenance guy.
Today that staff is bloated by as much as 400%, with guidance counselors, career counselors, librarians, disciplinarians, nurses, coaches, and on and on and on. Let's set a simple staffing level based upon the ideal school configuration and then massage it at the local level to meet specific needs. Another thing, You know all those people you see out on weekends doing community service, when why can't the be used at schools to paint, pick up trash, cut the grass etc. That's what I call community service.And non-violent offenders in municipal jails could be used too. Maybe the incentive there could be 1 day off the sentence for every 2 worked at a school.(weekends only of course)
I'd bet that just about any school, anywhere, could save the equivalent of at least one teacher's annual base salary every year if we could use a little common sense.
What about volunteerism ? Just as an example, I live in a city that is loaded with doctors, there is a major medical school located here, why isn't there a Doctors United for Educational Excellence ? Ask its doctor in town to volunteer 1 day a month during the school year to physically be at a public school. He could give a talk on drugs, or the unhealthiness of obesity, or just be available to help out or teach a biology class.
There are other professionals who could do the same thing. Parents need to be involved too, in a meaningful way. For every child in public school his parent(s) should be involved, if that means helping out serving lunch in the cafeteria, painting playground equipment, but one day a year for every parent isn't too much to ask. Call it Parents United for Education. It's the fact that they are reinforcing the importance of education, by their physical presence and interest that is meaningful, not what they do that day.
To me education has always been a 3 legged stool, and we all know that if one leg is missing the stool can't stand. You've got the kids, the staff, and the parents. If any one of them is absent, you may as well give up hope.
Tai Pan
Days
Commentator
Would if we threw out testing and grades altogether? Would if teaching was more than just a job, would if it was a vocation? (a calling of God) Would if classrooms were a place for kids with a passion to learn could find teachers with a passion to teach? Would businesses hire people anyway, based upon the classes they took, and the degrees they earned? There's so much more to the chemistry of a corporation than just the grades earned back in school by its people. If no one is the least bit interested in that on the job, why should it be a criteria for hiring?
there's no reason schools shouldn't be the coolest places on earth.
there's no reason schools shouldn't be the coolest places on earth.
I enjoy my 20 hour work week.
The same folks who are doing it now, but they would not be able to hold the people hostage.
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