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It's great the police are wearing bodycams, now there'll be far less controversy...

Spamature

President
Yes that is definitionally what a plea bargain is. Admission of guilt exchange for a reduced sentence, typically because the person so pleading is guilty of the charged crime
No, because they tell the person you are gambling with your life even if you are innocent. We will give you 5 but if you want to try your luck with a public defender and you'll be looking at 20 yrs behind bars.

Like Dirty Harry saying was it 5 shots or 6 ?

 

PhilFish

Administrator
Staff member
No, because they tell the person you are gambling with your life even if you are innocent. We will give you 5 but if you want to try your luck you'll be looking at 20 yrs behind bars.

Like Dirty Harry saying was it 5 shots or 6 ?

I'm pretty sure that in the vast majority of cases if you've made it all the way to a plea bargaining, the odds are pretty high that you're guilty of something
 

Spamature

President
I'm pretty sure that in the vast majority of cases if you've made it all the way to a plea bargaining, the odds are pretty high that you're guilty of something
No, the odds are high that you will be found guilty, not that you are guilty.

Take a day and go watch that human meat grinder we call a court system.

It's like watching a factory line with public defenders completely overwhelmed by their case loads pleading out client after client all day long. Your only real hope is being able to afford a lawyer. If that lawyer knows the judge it might be your luck day.
 

freyasman

Senator
Then let me say the legal system is the backbone and they are the backbone of that system.
Disagree; men don't need laws or cops to enforce them most of the time. That's a fiction perpetuated by folks who want to rule others.

Most men could live their entire lives without any of the "services" the government forces on them.
 

PhilFish

Administrator
Staff member
No, the odds are high that you will be found guilty, not that you are guilty.

Take a day and go watch that human meat grinder we call a court system.

It's like watching a factory line with public defenders completely overwhelmed by their case loads pleading out client after client all day long. Your only real hope is being able to afford a lawyer. If that lawyer knows the judge it might be your luck day.
Yes. Know plenty
 

freyasman

Senator
Yes that is definitionally what a plea bargain is. Admission of guilt exchange for a reduced sentence, typically because the person so pleading is guilty of the charged crime
But not always.... and for those sitting in a county lockup, unable to bail out, that deal starts to seem like the only option, even if they're not guilty. And BTW, those county lockups are kept deliberately shitty and dangerous as hell, to encourage people to take the deals, and keep the money-machine that our legal system is, running.
 
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Dino

Russian Asset
Only because the other 95% of the time suspects plea bargain because the odds in favor of the state or overwhelming and the penalty for going to trial is much more severe if they lose.
Yup, because when the proper amount of investigating, interviewing witnesses and suspects and collecting evidence is done correctly, guilty people feel certain to lose at trial. This causes them to make pleas instead of facing enhanced sentences after losing at trial.
Your understanding of this system is pretty rudimentary.
 

freyasman

Senator
No, the odds are high that you will be found guilty, not that you are guilty.

Take a day and go watch that human meat grinder we call a court system.

It's like watching a factory line with public defenders completely overwhelmed by their case loads pleading out client after client all day long. Your only real hope is being able to afford a lawyer. If that lawyer knows the judge it might be your luck day.
All true.
I retain attorneys based on their connections and relationships almost as much as on their actual legal skills.
 

freyasman

Senator
Yup, because when the proper amount of investigating, interviewing witnesses and suspects and collecting evidence is done correctly, guilty people feel certain to lose at trial. This causes them to make pleas instead of facing enhanced sentences after losing at trial.
Your understanding of this system is pretty rudimentary.
No, he seems to have a pretty good grasp of this actually.
 

Dino

Russian Asset
No, he seems to have a pretty good grasp of this actually.
I’m more down on the trial and judicial system, which is in far more need of a fix than the investigative function by the police.
Hating on the police for rightful and justified shootings shows a clear misunderstanding of their role and expectations.
Don’t be a dummy and be on his side.
 

Spamature

President
Yup, because when the proper amount of investigating, interviewing witnesses and suspects and collecting evidence is done correctly, guilty people feel certain to lose at trial. This causes them to make pleas instead of facing enhanced sentences after losing at trial.
Your understanding of this system is pretty rudimentary.
Personally know someone who was convicted of a murder that I know for a fact he did not commit. I know the police hounded a confession out of another kid in the case who also did not commit that crime. I know the people who they intended to go after once they got his conviction had the judge not thrown out the conviction. I know because I know exactly where they were when the murder was committed. During those years I watched how the system works from the squad car to the jail house to the court room.

So yeah, innocent people do get convicted of crimes they did not commit and it happens more often than you would image.
 

PhilFish

Administrator
Staff member
But not always.... and for those sitting in a county lockup, unable to bail out, that deal starts to seem like the only option, even if they're not guilty. And BTW, those county lockups are kept deliberately shitty and dangerous as hell, to encourage people to take the deals, and keep the money-machine that our legal system is, running.
Yes.
 

Spamature

President
No, he seems to have a pretty good grasp of this actually.
I once had a traffic ticket and went to court on it and lost. After it was all over a cop came over to me and said you were all going to lose today. You had a pro tem judge and in his regular day to day job the prosecutor is his boss. None of you even had a chance.
 

freyasman

Senator
I’m more down on the trial and judicial system, which is in far more need of a fix than the investigative function by the police.
Hating on the police for rightful and justified shootings shows a clear misunderstanding of their role and expectations.
Don’t be a dummy and be on his side.
You've known me long enough to know I understand the difference between a justified shooting and a bad shoot. Some of the most vilified police shootings of the last few years have been completely justified legally speaking..... and a whole lot of others have been straight up murder, or at least manslaughter.
There is a double standard at work, and it's going to get addressed one way or the other. It would be better for the cops to clean up their own act, because if we have to do it for them, it's going to look like July 7th, 2016, every day.

Boogaloo.:cool:
 
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