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Joe Biden: Man Who Stopped Texas Church Murder Spree Shouldn't Have Had That Gun

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Sickofleft

Guest
1. The sticking point on the new SOFA didn't have shit to do with the makeup of the units that would remain. It was entirely about the jurisdiction of Iraqi courts over our personnel accused of crimes in Iraq. Obama was unwilling to compromise on that. It would seem that neither was Maliki. He saw that as political suicide.
Odd the Bush Administration was able to get one in place. Just strange that the Obama Administration with the smartest people to ever walk the face of the earth involved couldn't.................:rolleyes:

Oh and your wrong, Malki would have signed but the Obama Administration insisted he get approval of the legislature. Something they knew was impossible and they got the out they needed.


2. You keep saying it wasn't a serious offer. What was "un-serious" about it?
The number of troops offered for starters. Obama Administration originally offered 4k troops. In a country the size of Iraq, 4k troops would have been mainly doing force protection....for themselves and themselves only.



We spent billions arming and training the Iraqi army...which would have been unnecessary if Bush/Rummie had not decided to disband the Iraqi army...creating the insurgency. Why did the Iraqi army run when ISIS entered the country? Could it have been because by 2014 the leadership of the military had been gutted and replaced by inexperience cronies of Maliki's who paid as much as a million bucks for the rank?

Why would someone pay that kind of money to be a general? Because then you could get rid of the soldiers but continue to draw their pay....there were supposed to be 50,000 troops in Anbar when ISIS rolled in. The generals were the first to run...followed by the other political appointees to rank.
I never faulted Bush for going to Iraq, I faulted him for not having a plan once we tossed the place. It's as if nobody in that Administration ever asked the question "Ok, then what?"

Which has little or nothing to do with the decisions the Obama Administration made in regards to leaving. Without our military personnel and significant force to back them up Malki could unfortunately do what ever he wanted and he did.

We won the Iraq the war, it was over. After all the missteps we were sitting pretty, we were nursing along a fledgling democracy in the heart of the Middle East, the last thing on earth countries like Iran wanted on their border.........just as we are still in South Korea, Japan and Germany we needed to stay.............

And President Obama flushed it down the toilet for a campaign slogan.


None of that would have changed with US troops there. Our guys would have been the only combat units to fight ISIS....and we'd have taken a lot of casualties fighting for land the Iraqis didn't want to fight for.
You have no way of knowing any of that. Chances are with a significant US military presence still in country, none of that ever happens and even if it did, it would have been over in about a week.
 
S

Sickofleft

Guest
What the hell are you talking about....the information on the genesis of Al Qaeda in Iraq into ISIS is well documented. Announcing that all US troops are leaving by 2011 was all the encouragement AQI and later ISIS needed...lay low and wait until they are gone.

As long as the Iraqi army that we'd trained and armed and the Sunni Militias were in place ISIS stayed in Syria. As soon as Maliki dismantled the officer corps and quit paying the Sunni militias...ISIS invaded.

Where do you think the officers and men of Saddam's army were going to go? AQI and later ISIS paid them pretty well....and unless they could return to the Iraqi army they had no jobs...
The hysterical thing is you think this helps your case.

Announcing that all US troops are leaving by 2011 was all the encouragement AQI and later ISIS needed...lay low and wait until they are gone.

Really? No shit, IT'S WHY YOU GET A NEW SOFA IN PLACE.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
The hysterical thing is you think this helps your case.

Announcing that all US troops are leaving by 2011 was all the encouragement AQI and later ISIS needed...lay low and wait until they are gone.

Really? No shit, IT'S WHY YOU GET A NEW SOFA IN PLACE.
Still trying to blame Obama for what you think was a bad decision that Bush made...

Obama offered an alternative SOFA that Maliki turned down...again you blame Obama for a bad decision that Maliki made...

Dude, your ODS is clouding your mind.

Has it hit you yet that ISIS didn't attack at the end of 2011 when the US troops left? They waited until mid 2014...why do you suppose that was the case?
 

NinaS

Senator
Supporting Member
In the first place I think he was specifically talking about the killer who shouldn't have had a gun at all.

Second...even if he were talking about the guy who shot the killer...how would he have known the size of the magazine in his rifle?
I also think that's what he was saying. But the top poster no doubt wanted him to mean the "hero". They don't always get things right. Trump stated that if that guy hadn't had his rifle in his truck, he couldn't have stopped the shooter. Yet, in every article I read, he got his gun from the safe inside his home. And yes, it does make a difference. Evidently this guy has enough sense to keep his guns in a safe place. Any crazed lunatic can get a gun out of a parked vehicle. IMO any gun left in a vehicle is pure carelessness and if you're going to own/use one carelessness is not a factor for responsible gun ownership.
 

freyasman

Senator
I also think that's what he was saying. But the top poster no doubt wanted him to mean the "hero". They don't always get things right. Trump stated that if that guy hadn't had his rifle in his truck, he couldn't have stopped the shooter. Yet, in every article I read, he got his gun from the safe inside his home. And yes, it does make a difference. Evidently this guy has enough sense to keep his guns in a safe place. Any crazed lunatic can get a gun out of a parked vehicle. IMO any gun left in a vehicle is pure carelessness and if you're going to own/use one carelessness is not a factor for responsible gun ownership.
Where do you think cops keep their patrol rifles?:rolleyes:
 
S

Sickofleft

Guest
Still trying to blame Obama for what you think was a bad decision that Bush made...
Bush did not fail to get a new SOFA in place, Obama did.

Obama offered an alternative SOFA that Maliki turned down...again you blame Obama for a bad decision that Maliki made...
It was the Obama Administration that forced Maliki into that decision because they knew he could not deliver what he was requesting. It's how they got the out they wanted for the campaign.

Dude, your ODS is clouding your mind.
You wish. You are desperately defending a miserably failed President Obama......just like the rest of your party.

as it hit you yet that ISIS didn't attack at the end of 2011 when the US troops left? They waited until mid 2014...why do you suppose that was the case?
My guess is they were still tied down in Syria but ask them. I mean reading back through this thread you seem to have intimate knowledge of every decision they ever made. :rolleyes:
 
I believe that if Joe Biden had run in 2016 instead of Hillary that he would be President right now.

He has never been right about anything his entire career, from breaking Detente with the Soviets to telling President Obama NOT to order the Bin Laden raid.........

Joe is entertaining and that is about it.
The Stay-Puft Marshmallow Man

And if hillary had won, dopey Tin Can would have taken JoJo's job.
 

NinaS

Senator
Supporting Member
According to Politico he said "Don't Go", I don't know was not in the room but there seems to be people involved who feels he was against it.

Iraq? Really? He was for the war, he was against the Troop surge and went along with the pull out.

I would say on those three things, wrong, wrong and wrong.


Lot of balls for a guy who opposed the surge and went along with a pull out for a campaign slogan later on............
Like every member of congress who signed it...they were FOR the invasion of Iraq IF necessary to rid Iraq of its threat against US..(they were never a threat) To rid them of their WMD (which they didn't have). The president and other warmongers failed to find any WMD...kicked out the inspectors who they sent there to find them, and knew that Iraq was not a viable threat against us, unlike North Korea was/is.

Congressmen should never have signed that bill. GW was all hyped up on being the guy to take down Saddam. He was an idiot. Even his own father was against the attack. It caused the deaths of nearly 5,000 of our servicemen and gave the REAL terrorists a new home. We killed more Iraqi innocents than the devastating earthquake just did and what good did it do??

And remember...Bush did NOT take it to the UN like he promised to do. France was right not to get involved. French fries anyone?
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
Odd the Bush Administration was able to get one in place. Just strange that the Obama Administration with the smartest people to ever walk the face of the earth involved couldn't.................:rolleyes:

Oh and your wrong, Malki would have signed but the Obama Administration insisted he get approval of the legislature. Something they knew was impossible and they got the out they needed.

The number of troops offered for starters. Obama Administration originally offered 4k troops. In a country the size of Iraq, 4k troops would have been mainly doing force protection....for themselves and themselves only.

I never faulted Bush for going to Iraq, I faulted him for not having a plan once we tossed the place. It's as if nobody in that Administration ever asked the question "Ok, then what?"

Which has little or nothing to do with the decisions the Obama Administration made in regards to leaving. Without our military personnel and significant force to back them up Malki could unfortunately do what ever he wanted and he did.

We won the Iraq the war, it was over. After all the missteps we were sitting pretty, we were nursing along a fledgling democracy in the heart of the Middle East, the last thing on earth countries like Iran wanted on their border.........just as we are still in South Korea, Japan and Germany we needed to stay.............

And President Obama flushed it down the toilet for a campaign slogan.

You have no way of knowing any of that. Chances are with a significant US military presence still in country, none of that ever happens and even if it did, it would have been over in about a week.
Wow...yes, Bush got one in place that you blame Obama for...unbef*ckinlievable....
The one he got in place was to withdraw all US troops from Iraq by the end of 2011...
If it was so damned dumb to do that, why did his team agree to it and why did he sign it on his way out the door? He should have left that to Obama since he only had 30 days to go.

Maliki wouldn't put it up for a vote precisely because of the issue of jurisdiction over US troops accused of a crime. DUH...
It seems you'd have let their courts hold our guys for trial...nice.

Comparing Germany, Japan and South Korea to Iraq is pretty nutty. The circumstances were completely different. We were facing Russian troops in Germany, a threat by Russia to invade Japan at the end of WWII and a truce not a surrender in Korea....the North Koreans were better armed than the South and probably would have started another war as soon as they could get restocked from the soviet union.

The Russians had blockaded Berlin in an attempt to force the US and allies out...
What country did Iraq face? How could our military have prevented the corruption of the Iraqi regime which destroyed the morale and ability of the Iraqi army?
 
He could not have ignored SOFA but he could have gotten a new one in place, he did not. He "ended" the Iraq war as irresponsibly as it was started all for a campaign slogan.



We will never know because Obama made the strategic blunder of pulling everyone out in 2012 but I think with a contingent of US forces still in Iraq (10-20K), as we are in Germany, Japan and South Korea etc., ISIS never leaves Syria. Even if that did this would have been long over by now.

Don't believe me, just think how well the Iraqi troops have done with just 6k of our guys in support have done..........
JVs and Jelly Beans

ISIS was in the wide-open spaces, easy pickings. Using air power and Navy missiles alone, FUBARack could have exterminated them when they were out there, but he couldn't believe his Muzzie brothers would betray him after his nice-guy approach. So he had to talk himself into believingt it was a futile and insignificant last gasp by a few diehards that our puppet Iraqi forces could easily asphyxiate.
 
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freyasman

Senator
The same guy you're talking about...the one who stopped the Church killer.
Willeford? Okay, if you say so, he's a plumber.....
What does that have to do with anything? Do we care if he can unclog a pipe as well as shoot murderers?
 

NinaS

Senator
Supporting Member
Willeford? Okay, if you say so, he's a plumber.....
What does that have to do with anything? Do we care if he can unclog a pipe as well as shoot murderers?
I thought you were implying that he's a policeman. I don't care if he's a policeman, a dog catcher or a CEO....he shouldn't be leaving a gun like that in his TRUCK. That's what Trump obviously thought happened.
 
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