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Joint Discussion: How long can "indefinitely" last?

bdtex

Administrator
Staff member
I think it's entirely irresponsible to have things closed "indefinitely". I think you set tabbed markers of when to look forward to, and then reconsider.
I think in reality,these decisions are being reconsidered daily. I am assuming the details of the daily deliberations are not being released and I'm okay with that.
 

Dawg

President
Supporting Member
You signed on the dotted line that you would pay it back. It would be unethical not to pay it back.

Easy doesn't make it the right thing to do.
Says someone with NO mortgage and why not take your advice and pay off your student loans?

Everyone can't live off mommy & daddy!
 

Dawg

President
Supporting Member
Mortgages rate are far from usurious

Everyone knows full well, when and how much money is due when they buy a house. They know the consequences of not paying. They should face the consequences of their own poor decisions.
"Everyone knows full well, when and how much money is due when they" take student loans.

Should gov build student loan prisons?
 

Bernard_Fokke

Captain Fokke
Supporting Member
I think it's entirely irresponsible to have things closed "indefinitely". I think you set tabbed markers of when to look forward to, and then reconsider. Trump did that with Easter (the media freaked out as if he was 100% literal and not just throwing a branch of possibility and hope, but that's another issue)

But this is mainly in regards to the economy. Loss of life and the economy are not mutually exclusive. If you purposefully nuke the economy, you're going to cause not only massive suffering but death in areas. Infrastructure supports human life, and infrastructure can only last so long when you're purposefully de-monetizing it.

What's the answer? I don't really hear any. Keep printing money until my $1 becomes 25 cents? How can the government expect to withhold civil liberties for an "indefinite" amount of time? I think the populace will play ball for a defined period, but man, some of this talk coming from governors and such.. they expect all of us to just stay locked away for 6 months if we have to... I've got news for them, that's not going to probably happen.

What do you think?
90 days is pushing it, even with the Fed attempting to help at the end of three months most small business owners are going to be in the tank, 6 months will put 50%-75% completely out of business and the country in a recession/depression that will take years to recover from...Again if it happens .

I'm praying that this ends sooner rather than later as the alternative is ugly as hell.
 

voyager

4Q2247365
I think it's entirely irresponsible to have things closed "indefinitely". I think you set tabbed markers of when to look forward to, and then reconsider. Trump did that with Easter (the media freaked out as if he was 100% literal and not just throwing a branch of possibility and hope, but that's another issue)

But this is mainly in regards to the economy. Loss of life and the economy are not mutually exclusive. If you purposefully nuke the economy, you're going to cause not only massive suffering but death in areas. Infrastructure supports human life, and infrastructure can only last so long when you're purposefully de-monetizing it.

What's the answer? I don't really hear any. Keep printing money until my $1 becomes 25 cents? How can the government expect to withhold civil liberties for an "indefinite" amount of time? I think the populace will play ball for a defined period, but man, some of this talk coming from governors and such.. they expect all of us to just stay locked away for 6 months if we have to... I've got news for them, that's not going to probably happen.

What do you think?

Like God money is based on Faith.
 

Days

Commentator
I think in reality,these decisions are being reconsidered daily. I am assuming the details of the daily deliberations are not being released and I'm okay with that.
90 days is pushing it, even with the Fed attempting to help at the end of three months most small business owners are going to be in the tank, 6 months will put 50%-75% completely out of business and the country in a recession/depression that will take years to recover from...Again if it happens .

I'm praying that this ends sooner rather than later as the alternative is ugly as hell.
What isn't being defined is ... the mission. What are we trying to accomplish here? If the whole gambit is merely to flatten the curve, then where is the desired zenith? This coming out daily with numbers isn't telling us anything, we need to know the game plan. The problem is that we are in an election year and everything is politicized. Trump doesn't dare get down to brass tacks and draw a line in the sand because it will immediately be used as ammo against him.

But there's no way small businesses can hang on past 90 days with shut doors; that will kill 80% of them right then. Trump has got to get the CDC to come clean about this virus; this thing is treatable, there's no need to hide from it other than to flatten the curve, but when we see hot spots and then their curve flattens; that's when the doors should reopen... why should NYC remain sheltered for Wyoming? And why should Wyoming be sheltered at all? They might have needed a full shut down to discern whether it is effective, okay, fine, but at some point they have to quit playing God with our lives and think in terms of a program to reopen the areas that are building community immunity as they call it.

Bottom line: this virus is going to stay out there, we are going to have to live with it, we can not wait for a vaccine to return to work; it is already time for this task force to start modeling acceptable numbers for areas to return to work. This nation can not live in limbo forever.
 

Dawg

President
Supporting Member
People worried about indefinitely and not of eternity in Hell...………..

go figure
 

Days

Commentator
How many fatalities are acceptable to you?
It isn't about the number of fatalities, it is about the number of hospital beds versus the number of people filling them.

The CDC is trying to provide care for everyone that needs it. Everyone that has been infected and has been treated exits the system; whether they lived or died, they turn over their hospital bed to the next patient. Those are the numbers that need to be modeled, and those are the numbers they are tracking; but I'm saying they need to come up with a zenith that they can work with... right now they are behind the 8 ball and trying to catch up with the anticipated first wave... but say 3 weeks from now, they should be able to say to the areas where the virus has already spread; okay you should be able to go back to work at such and such a time.
 

RickWA

Senator
I think it's entirely irresponsible to have things closed "indefinitely". I think you set tabbed markers of when to look forward to, and then reconsider. Trump did that with Easter (the media freaked out as if he was 100% literal and not just throwing a branch of possibility and hope, but that's another issue)

But this is mainly in regards to the economy. Loss of life and the economy are not mutually exclusive. If you purposefully nuke the economy, you're going to cause not only massive suffering but death in areas. Infrastructure supports human life, and infrastructure can only last so long when you're purposefully de-monetizing it.

What's the answer? I don't really hear any. Keep printing money until my $1 becomes 25 cents? How can the government expect to withhold civil liberties for an "indefinite" amount of time? I think the populace will play ball for a defined period, but man, some of this talk coming from governors and such.. they expect all of us to just stay locked away for 6 months if we have to... I've got news for them, that's not going to probably happen.

What do you think?
Agreed that the vague term "indefinitely" is wrong. It seems to me that 15-30 day increments that are reviewed and then extended or ended seems appropriate.
 

Days

Commentator
Urine-Colored Rocks


Gold is also a fiat currency.
that is absolutely wrong....

except that the value of gold is set every morning at 10AM Greenwich time by the British; so you could look at that and use it to define gold as a fiat currency...

You could do that, and it would have merit.

But that's only part of the definition of a fiat currency; the complete idea is that the currency is created synthetically; usually printed, but it could easily have been marks on a piece of wood, whatever the method, the point is, it is an accounting method, it is a value placed arbitrarily by the fiat, and that is the most important feature of a fiat currency; all of its value is derived from the authority of the fiat that creates it...

gold OTOH has to be mined and refined and is a substance of value that has multiple uses... so, not a fiat currency.
 
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Mr. Friscus

I think, therefore, I poop
I just saw that Dallas is extending this hard-capped lockdown until mid-May

I'm not some anarchist in the slightest, but I don't think a government can tell citizens who live under the American constitution that they have to abide by the strictest of guidelines and sacrificing of rights for long periods of time.

Well, they can "tell them", but I could see it turning into a common understanding amongst the business owning populace that "yeah, we need to open to not become impoverished", and police not have the means to be able to stop all of them.

I mean, it's enough for people who were settled with a source of income to be stripped of it by government decree, but at the same time having their retirements and investments slashed?? Commonfolk previously of means unable to pay rent and basic support in society?

Meanwhile, the governors in their mansions tell them to "wait it out"?

I don't know about that.

@bdtex @RickWA @SW48 , what do you guys think?
 
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that is absolutely wrong....

except that the value of gold is set every morning at 10AM Greenwich time by the British; so you could look at that and use it to define gold as a fiat currency...

You could do that, and it would have merit.

But that's only part of the definition of a fiat currency; the complete idea is that the currency is created synthetically; usually printed, but it could easily have been marks on a piece of wood, whatever the method, the point is, it is an accounting method, it is a value placed arbitrarily by the fiat, and that is the most important feature of a fiat currency; all of its value is derived from the authority of the fiat that creates it...

gold OTOH has to be mined and refined and is a substance of value that has multiple uses... so, not a fiat currency.
Suckers Are Susceptible to the Gold-Bug Virus

Those who control the gold market set its value. As with raw diamonds, this clique decides how much gold will be mined, refined, and put on the market.
 
that is absolutely wrong....
Gold is very much a fiat currency.
except that the value of gold is set every morning at 10AM Greenwich time by the British; so you could look at that and use it to define gold as a fiat currency...
Gold has value because people say it has value, just like the paper dollars are printed on.

gold OTOH has to be mined and refined and is a substance of value that has multiple uses... so, not a fiat currency.
Paper has to be printed and it can be used for other purposes as well.
 

voyager

4Q2247365
What is going to happen is trump is going to call the all clear too soon. THEN within a couple of weeks to a month we find it's NOT all clear and we will start over again. That is when martial law will probably take over. Until there is a vaccine it ain't over.
 

EatTheRich

President
Gold is very much a fiat currency.

Gold has value because people say it has value, just like the paper dollars are printed on.


Paper has to be printed and it can be used for other purposes as well.
Gold as money has no more intrinsic worth than any other kind of money. However, gold has some qualities which make it a good choice for money, one of the being the cost of production which sets a standard of value. Gold also has exchange value as a nonmonetary commodity, for example in industrial use.
 
Gold as money has no more intrinsic worth than any other kind of money. However, gold has some qualities which make it a good choice for money, one of the being the cost of production which sets a standard of value.
The cost of production varies from mine to mine.
Gold also has exchange value as a nonmonetary commodity, for example in industrial use.
Gold's limited availability severally restrict it's potential use as money. There isn't enough Gold in the world to make it a realistic currency.
 
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