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Legal Responsibility for Words

Discussion in 'Latest Political News and Current Events' started by Arkady, Jun 17, 2017.

  1. Spamature

    Spamature Senator

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    I once heard a story about a drunk guy with a knife who gave a hobo 4000 stitches when the hobo resisted his sexual advances. Maybe you read about it in your court transcripts.
     
    • Disagree x 1
  2. Dawg

    Dawg President Supporting Member

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    All you have are lies and always thinking about gay BS.................

    Boy when you get your ass kicked in a debate you resort to libel lies.........

    weak, very weak even for you.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. Dawg

    Dawg President Supporting Member

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    Trying to read that diatribe of Ebonics would depress most or make them want to get high!
     
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  4. Spamature

    Spamature Senator

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    Then you post one. Otherwise, Shut The Front Door.
     
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  5. Dawg

    Dawg President Supporting Member

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  6. Jen

    Jen Proud Deplorable

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    Yes. I agree. Maybe we need to start looking at the consequences of peoples' words:

    Loretta Lynch speaking to Democrats said they should rise up and yes, there will be blood and death on the streets.

    Tim Kaine likewise told Democrats to fight in the streets.

    And then there's #huntrepublicans.

    If you believe that anyone on the Right has crossed a line..........you need to also look to those on the Left who have and are still doing that.

    If Trump needs to tone down his response to these calls for violence ( when he says it it's always in response to something the Left has done)......... then maybe the Left has some toning down to do. After all, all.....ALL of the actual violence since the election has come from the Left. You can't ignore it. But I'm sure you will.
     
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2017 at 8:03 PM
  7. JackDallas

    JackDallas Governor Supporting Member

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    If inciting riot were actually enforced, every Democrat politician would be in the slammer. Inciting violence is the crown jewel in their resumes.
     
  8. Bugsy McGurk

    Bugsy McGurk President

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    Examples?
     
  9. JackDallas

    JackDallas Governor Supporting Member

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    Pay attention and you won't expose yourself as the dumbass you are.
     
  10. EatTheRich

    EatTheRich Senator

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    Did you mean Donald and Melania Trump? Cause that never happened with Clinton.
     
  11. EatTheRich

    EatTheRich Senator

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    Also maybe different if the person telling you to kill yourself is your shrink, or legal guardian, or otherwise in a personal relationship of authority.
     
  12. EatTheRich

    EatTheRich Senator

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  13. Arkady

    Arkady The Departed

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    Interesting line of thought (and, for the record, in the case at hand, she was depressed, too). But I decide, instead, based on my near-absolute defense of free speech. You should be free to argue that someone should kill himself -- even someone you know to be intoxicated or depressed. Unless you owe a duty of care to the person (e.g., it's a child, or you're the person's psychologist, etc.), they should be responsible for their own acts.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  14. freyasman

    freyasman Governor

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    I've told a few people to go kill themselves, and while it might not be very nice of me, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it if one of them ever actually did.
     
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  15. connieb

    connieb Moderator Staff Member

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    I too am pretty close to a free speech absolutist as well, and I disagree with the verdict as well for the same reasons.

    I actually hate the kind of grand standing of the prosecutor in this case, to go for that level of charges. I despise judicial activism and I am a strict constitutionalist - and believe in general the law on the books needs to be interpreted from the perspective of those who wrote it in the time that they wrote it. If they would not have conceived of texting a person to convince them to die when the statute of involuntary manslaughter was written - then what she did does not fall under that statute. We have to make our legislators do the hard work - of actually legislating these complex issues. Not let them off the hook by simply reinterpreting the law as we see fit. That to me, honestly violates the concept of notice. A person should know if their conduct is illegal. Not have a law reinterpreted to make something illegal because we now find ourselves morally incensed at their actions.

    I do think that a case could be made for harassment. That is already a recognized exception to free speech. Maybe a separate count for each bad text - no concurrent sentencing and giving her the max - may have gotten them close to where she will get with involuntary manslaughter. I disagree with making "cyber-bullying" a crime for the same reason. We already have harassment. THAT is already the criminalization of using speech to harm another person mentally. That has a well established standard. If the speech does not rise to that - then I disagree with making some other law or some other charge

    But, in addition to my free speech issue - I absolutely disagree with holding one person accountable for the actions of another. She is not a dr. She is not responsible for his mental health. She has no obligation to look out and care for him. It wasn't her responsibility to have to call 911 and report he was suicidal or try to stop him.

    Morally, I think it was incredibly wrong for her to encourage him and to not stop him.But he chose his path. He chose to date her. He chose to text with her. People get in unhealthy relationships all the time.. and I don't think that means the other person is now responsible for the bad decisions of the other person in the relationship. I don't like that kind of precedent because to me it is creating some sort of standard of duty of care.
     
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  16. The Thinker

    The Thinker The Official PJ Score Keeper

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    That's very strange. I always thought it was doctors who gave stitches, not people with knives.
     
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  17. connieb

    connieb Moderator Staff Member

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    I agree. If a person is so incompetent that they are mentally suggestible like people who suffer from mental retardation are.. then they too should have a guardian who exercises control, etc. Then we are back to locking up the mentally ill in facilities. Its either/or in my opinion.
     
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  18. Zam-Zam

    Zam-Zam Governor

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    Ms. Carter did have knowledge that a young man was in the act of committing suicide. Did she not have any legal obligation to inform authorities in a timely manner, at a bare minimum?
     
  19. The Thinker

    The Thinker The Official PJ Score Keeper

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    I believe Obama also told Democrats to "get in their faces", "if they bring a knife to the fight, we'll bring a gun", "whose ass to kick", "gearing up for a fight"and other rhetoric that promoted violence. And with the context being he was talking to leftists who are already known for being violent, one would have to be extremely dishonest to say it wasn't violent rhetoric.
     
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  20. connieb

    connieb Moderator Staff Member

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    I would say, no, honestly. There is no legal obligation to witness a person drowning and call for help - unless you were in a position like parent/child where you had a duty of care.

    Morally - she did of course have an obligation. She was as wrong as wrong could be.

    But, this is one of those times in my opinion where the law does not have to live up to our moral codes. I do not want to create the legal standard where we have some sort of criminal legal obligation towards intervening in dangerous/bad situations for each other.
     

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