Let's get one thing straight

[Wahbooz]

Equating Clive Bundy to any Native American struggle is ridiculous. The Kanesatake or Sitting Bull, or Geronimo, or anyone else you try to compare, have absolutely nothing in common with Clive Bundy. Geronimo, Sitting Bull, the Kanesatake, and all others fought against the stealing of their lands. Bundy is nothing more than an example of the American government, and the British, Spanish, French governments prior to that.

 

[Jen]

Equating Clive Bundy to any Native American struggle is ridiculous. The Kanesatake or Sitting Bull, or Geronimo, or anyone else you try to compare, have absolutely nothing in common with Clive Bundy. Geronimo, Sitting Bull, the Kanesatake, and all others fought against the stealing of their lands. Bundy is nothing more than an example of the American government, and the British, Spanish, French governments prior to that.

I agree that equating Clive Bundy to Native American struggle is not a good comparison. Doesn't work.

Bundy no doubt owes the government taxes and should pay to use government land. And I'm not sure where Bundy gets the backing to ignore federal law but support State law. It might be there but I haven't seen it. So Bundy isn't 100% in the right.

My problem with the whole situation is that the Feds are being extremely heavy handed with Bundy over some cattle eating federally owned grass and pooping on federally owned land. Sending out people with guns and positioning snipers is just wrong. Killing penned bulls, separating momma cows from their babies, tazing people and ruining property and buildings is not a right thing for our government to do.

That sort of thing wasn't done to Geithner for not paying his taxes. Nothing like that was done to Charles Rangel for evading taxes. Most people who evade taxes get a lien on their property or get their pay taken. Geithner and Rangel are still in their plum government spots and do we know that they paid those back taxes? Nope.

The government overstepped its boundaries with Bundy. Now it looks tyrannical. The only comparison to the Native Americans that I see is the government getting violent when it wants something it cannot and should not have............resulting in the injury to people and property.

 

[IndependentinWis]

Equating Clive Bundy to any Native American struggle is ridiculous. The Kanesatake or Sitting Bull, or Geronimo, or anyone else you try to compare, have absolutely nothing in common with Clive Bundy. Geronimo, Sitting Bull, the Kanesatake, and all others fought against the stealing of their lands. Bundy is nothing more than an example of the American government, and the British, Spanish, French governments prior to that.

Who was stupid enough to compare Native Americans fighting to maintain their way of life and Bundy who is just a plain old thief, stealing from everyone in this country including the present day Native Americans.

 

[IndependentinWis]

I agree that equating Clive Bundy to Native American struggle is not a good comparison. Doesn't work.

Bundy no doubt owes the government taxes and should pay to use government land. And I'm not sure where Bundy gets the backing to ignore federal law but support State law. It might be there but I haven't seen it. So Bundy isn't 100% in the right.

My problem with the whole situation is that the Feds are being extremely heavy handed with Bundy over some cattle eating federally owned grass and pooping on federally owned land. Sending out people with guns and positioning snipers is just wrong. Killing penned bulls, separating momma cows from their babies, tazing people and ruining property and buildings is not a right thing for our government to do.

That sort of thing wasn't done to Geithner for not paying his taxes. Nothing like that was done to Charles Rangel for evading taxes. Most people who evade taxes get a lien on their property or get their pay taken. Geithner and Rangel are still in their plum government spots and do we know that they paid those back taxes? Nope.

The government overstepped its boundaries with Bundy. Now it looks tyrannical. The only comparison to the Native Americans that I see is the government getting violent when it wants something it cannot and should not have............resulting in the injury to people and property.

Actually the cattle don't really belong to Bundy anymore. The court says that they were to be taken in as payment for the fees he failed to pay. Just as a bank would take back your house if you failed to make your monthly payment for 20 years. Heavy handed, I don't think so. It may seem heavy handed to someone who hates the Feds to begin with, but to most Americans, the government did what the court ordered it to do. There are a lot of Americans out here that wish the Army would just go in and take care of business.

 

[Wahbooz]

I agree that equating Clive Bundy to Native American struggle is not a good comparison. Doesn't work.

Bundy no doubt owes the government taxes and should pay to use government land. And I'm not sure where Bundy gets the backing to ignore federal law but support State law. It might be there but I haven't seen it. So Bundy isn't 100% in the right.

My problem with the whole situation is that the Feds are being extremely heavy handed with Bundy over some cattle eating federally owned grass and pooping on federally owned land. Sending out people with guns and positioning snipers is just wrong. Killing penned bulls, separating momma cows from their babies, tazing people and ruining property and buildings is not a right thing for our government to do.

That sort of thing wasn't done to Geithner for not paying his taxes. Nothing like that was done to Charles Rangel for evading taxes. Most people who evade taxes get a lien on their property or get their pay taken. Geithner and Rangel are still in their plum government spots and do we know that they paid those back taxes? Nope.

The government overstepped its boundaries with Bundy. Now it looks tyrannical. The only comparison to the Native Americans that I see is the government getting violent when it wants something it cannot and should not have............resulting in the injury to people and property.

I would think that 20 years was more than enough time for Bundy to rectify his problems with the government. Afterall, how often should someone lose in court before that person realizes he's in the wrong. And when law enforcement is threatened they have the right to meet threat with threat.

 

[Wahbooz]

Who was stupid enough to compare Native Americans fighting to maintain their way of life and Bundy who is just a plain old thief, stealing from everyone in this country including the present day Native Americans.

There's been a couple trying to compare the two.

 

[Jen]

Actually the cattle don't really belong to Bundy anymore. The court says that they were to be taken in as payment for the fees he failed to pay. Just as a bank would take back your house if you failed to make your monthly payment for 20 years. Heavy handed, I don't think so. It may seem heavy handed to someone who hates the Feds to begin with, but to most Americans, the government did what the court ordered it to do. There are a lot of Americans out here that wish the Army would just go in and take care of business.

The feds are getting very heavy handed.
If you like that then fine. Just admit it.
I don't hate the feds at all. I don't know about Bundy and as I said, he is wrong in what he's done.
But that doesn't change the FACT that the government is being heavy handed with him. Take his cattle. Fine. But to trample and ruin his property, taze his family and friends....... that is heavy handed. The cost for all
I just do not like or want a tyrannical government.

I would think that 20 years was more than enough time for Bundy to rectify his problems with the government. Afterall, how often should someone lose in court before that person realizes he's in the wrong. And when law enforcement is threatened they have the right to meet threat with threat.

Again I agree that 20 years was quite enough.

But the question is whether the feds showed up with guns and snipers so the Bundys followed suit?

I'm thinking that's how it came down.

The feds look bad here even though they are in the right on the issue.
Just saying.

 

[Wahbooz]

I seriously doubt it happened that way, Jen.

 

[Constitutional Sheepdog]

I agree that equating Clive Bundy to Native American struggle is not a good comparison. Doesn't work.

Bundy no doubt owes the government taxes and should pay to use government land. And I'm not sure where Bundy gets the backing to ignore federal law but support State law. It might be there but I haven't seen it. So Bundy isn't 100% in the right.

My problem with the whole situation is that the Feds are being extremely heavy handed with Bundy over some cattle eating federally owned grass and pooping on federally owned land. Sending out people with guns and positioning snipers is just wrong. Killing penned bulls, separating momma cows from their babies, tazing people and ruining property and buildings is not a right thing for our government to do.

That sort of thing wasn't done to Geithner for not paying his taxes. Nothing like that was done to Charles Rangel for evading taxes. Most people who evade taxes get a lien on their property or get their pay taken. Geithner and Rangel are still in their plum government spots and do we know that they paid those back taxes? Nope.

The government overstepped its boundaries with Bundy. Now it looks tyrannical. The only comparison to the Native Americans that I see is the government getting violent when it wants something it cannot and should not have............resulting in the injury to people and property.

How about Palestine and Israel? The left seems to be supportive of Palestine taking land and claiming it for themselves.

 

[Boca]

Bundy no doubt owes the government taxes and should pay to use government land.....my problem with the whole situation is that the Feds are being extremely heavy handed with Bundy over some cattle eating federally owned grass and pooping on federally owned land.

Ever heard the term "prescriptive rights" Jen. I recognize the concept but didn't know what it was called legally. Most of us non-lawyer types might equate it with "squatter's rights". I don't know about that either.

Anyway, here 'tis...

In most states, if a trespass or use of land occurs regularly for at least 5 years without the "owner" of the land taking legal action, prescriptive rights come into play. Because Bundy stopped paying his grazing fees to the BLM in 1993, but continued to use the land for over 20 years, it is possible he now has prescriptive rights to the land.

Methinks the 20 year delay and the "heavy handedness" can be linked together and explained by the fact that solar power wasn't a big deal 20 years ago and the current Senate Majority Leader - from Nevada - and his son didn't have a financial stake in it.

As always...follow the money... you'll usually find a pig or two.

 

[Union_Jack_1972]

Equating Clive Bundy to any Native American struggle is ridiculous. The Kanesatake or Sitting Bull, or Geronimo, or anyone else you try to compare, have absolutely nothing in common with Clive Bundy. Geronimo, Sitting Bull, the Kanesatake, and all others fought against the stealing of their lands. Bundy is nothing more than an example of the American government, and the British, Spanish, French governments prior to that.

Damn it man, I thought when you wrote let get something straight you were coming out of the closet and setting us straight, but instead drop this perfect piece in my lap...

 

[NightSwimmer]

But the question is whether the feds showed up with guns and snipers so the Bundys followed suit?

Does that fantasy allow you to feel better about cheering for blatant, lawless criminals?

"The feds are getting very heavy handed."

Yes... It is very heavy handed of the feds to enforce the law, just as it is very heavy handed of the IRS to collect taxes.

If you are on the wrong side of an issue, then you have two choices:

1. Rationalize your position by ignoring the facts.
2. Change your position in order to comply with reality.

 

[freyasman]

There's been a couple trying to compare the two.

Like who?

 

[Boca]

....on the wrong side of an issue...rationalize your position by ignoring the facts.

How true...like ignore the fact that the Reid family has a financial stake in this and that the simple - and normal everyday recourse - would have been a government filing of a lien on Bundy's cattle for past due monies. But that wouldn't have cleared the cattle from a prospective solar farm would it?

So...let's risk a little range war and bloodshed instead of going with normal.

 

[as seen on tv]

wonderful post - i completely agree.

unlike the american indians, cliven bundy never took up arms against the US government, never shot anyone. and in fact he doesn't even expect any federal support.

he just wants to graze cattle and sell them to people who like steak.

 

[Renee]

How true...like ignore the fact that the Reid family has a financial stake in this and that the simple - and normal everyday recourse - would have been a government filing of a lien on Bundy's cattle for past due monies. But that wouldn't have cleared the cattle from a prospective solar farm would it?

So...let's risk a little range war and bloodshed instead of going with normal.

Tell us what stake the read family has in this. That has been debunked by everyone and Fox News won't apologize Why don't you try and listen to a station that is honest

 

[Renee]

wonderful post - i completely agree.

unlike the american indians, cliven bundy never took up arms against the US government, never shot anyone. and in fact he doesn't even expect any federal support.

he just wants to graze cattle and sell them to people who like steak.

I just want to live in Yellowstone national,park, ....wanna buy a condo I'm going to build? It's nice for people who like nice views.

 

[Constitutional Sheepdog]

Tell us what stake the read family has in this. That has been debunked by everyone and Fox News won't apologize Why don't you try and listen to a station that is honest

ok I just debunk you, repeat after me You Constitutional Sheepdog have debunked every argument I have presented. DOES JUST SAYING IT MEAN IT HAPPEN?
Even though in our case it's true, but you get what I mean.

 

[Deleted 2.1Saladin]

Equating Clive Bundy to any Native American struggle is ridiculous. The Kanesatake or Sitting Bull, or Geronimo, or anyone else you try to compare, have absolutely nothing in common with Clive Bundy. Geronimo, Sitting Bull, the Kanesatake, and all others fought against the stealing of their lands. Bundy is nothing more than an example of the American government, and the British, Spanish, French governments prior to that.

Right on brother! If a Republican supports it then it is wrong plain and simple.

 

[Deleted 2.1Saladin]

I just want to live in Yellowstone national,park, ....wanna buy a condo I'm going to build? It's nice for people who like nice views.

You deserve one. You support Obama