Let's talk about the National Debt, in real terms.

[Wahbooz]

Here is roughly how the National Debt is broken down. Roughly because it changes over time.

A percentage of debt.

U.S. individuals and institutions 30.4%
U.S. Social Security Trust Fund 16.7%
U.S. Federal Reserve 10.8%
U.S. Federal Services Retirement Fund 5.6%
U.S. Military Retirement Fund 2.4%
China and Hong Kong 8.1%
Japan 7.0%
Oil Exporters 1.7%
Brazil 1.6%
UK 0.9%
All other nations 14.8%

As you can see, U.S. individuals and institutions own 30%, government agencies own over 35%. Out of that $17 trillion debt, we owe ourselves over 65%. Which part of that debt do you think they would abolish if they had the chance? Think they'd hurt their oil exporting buddies? How about the overseas sweat shops who manufacture your clothing these days? No, my guess is they'd abolish the Social Security System, Federal Retirement accounts, and pat themselves on the back for a job well done.

 

[fairsheet]

Here is roughly how the National Debt is broken down. Roughly because it changes over time.

A percentage of debt.

U.S. individuals and institutions 30.4%
U.S. Social Security Trust Fund 16.7%
U.S. Federal Reserve 10.8%
U.S. Federal Services Retirement Fund 5.6%
U.S. Military Retirement Fund 2.4%
China and Hong Kong 8.1%
Japan 7.0%
Oil Exporters 1.7%
Brazil 1.6%
UK 0.9%
All other nations 14.8%

As you can see, U.S. individuals and institutions own 30%, government agencies own over 35%. Out of that $17 trillion debt, we owe ourselves over 65%. Which part of that debt do you think they would abolish if they had the chance? Think they'd hurt their oil exporting buddies? How about the overseas sweat shops who manufacture your clothing these days? No, my guess is they'd abolish the Social Security System, Federal Retirement accounts, and pat themselves on the back for a job well done.

I'll take your numbers in a different direction. We owe OURSELVES 65% of the "debt". Therefore, 65% of our debt is offset by our OWN assets (assuming no ROI whatsoever, on that debt).

The debt/deficit scolds love to equate our national debt with those of private companies or households. Private companies and even some households DO have ways of "borrowing" from themselves. And of course, they consider that "debt" a whole lot differently from the debt they owe outside entities.

 

[Wahbooz]

Exactly, we borrow from our left pocket for our right pocket. Which is why it's ridiculous to me to see someone posting how we need to get rid of our debt because it's ruining us. Pay off what we owe other countries, due in part to trade deficits, stop buying foreign, and surprise..... very little debt. But there are politicians who use this to scare the public, like Willard tried with his China owns us bologna. We're not borrowing from China, we're buying our way into that debt by importing so many Chinese products.

 

[SW48]

This is an interesting post. I can't say that I understand our debt or how it got to where it is.

Any other comments on this thread? Is this a valid explanation?

 

[fairsheet]

Exactly, we borrow from our left pocket for our right pocket. Which is why it's ridiculous to me to see someone posting how we need to get rid of our debt because it's ruining us. Pay off what we owe other countries, due in part to trade deficits, stop buying foreign, and surprise..... very little debt. But there are politicians who use this to scare the public, like Willard tried with his China owns us bologna. We're not borrowing from China, we're buying our way into that debt by importing so many Chinese products.

I've oft-suggested that it doesn't matter how much we owe in a vacuum. All that matters, is that we're earning more on that money, than we're paying. Free-market "conservatives" of yore, understood this. Now though, they laugh at the idea of "investing" our way to economic solidity.

 

[Wahbooz]

I'm not sure, fair, but I suspect they don't get it because they have been wanting to abolish Social Security for some time now, and so they hide the fact they owe Social Security to the tune of about $2.8 trillion. How on earth can Social Security possibly be going 'bankrupt' when it has that much in treasury bonds.

 

[Wahbooz]

This is an interesting post. I can't say that I understand our debt or how it got to where it is.

Any other comments on this thread? Is this a valid explanation?

I'll wait and see if you get any plausible responses. So many Americans don't want to do the research, they'd rather have the 'truth' spoon fed to them.

 

[Woolleybugger]

If you want to understand these issues in more depth, go to Angry Bear. There are some fabulous posters over there that go into the subject in detail.

 

[Wahbooz]

If you want to understand these issues in more depth, go to Angry Bear. There are some fabulous posters over there that go into the subject in detail.

Thanks, that's looks interesting. I'll read, but with an open mind of course.

 

[Queen Titania]

Exactly, we borrow from our left pocket for our right pocket. Which is why it's ridiculous to me to see someone posting how we need to get rid of our debt because it's ruining us. Pay off what we owe other countries, due in part to trade deficits, stop buying foreign, and surprise..... very little debt. But there are politicians who use this to scare the public, like Willard tried with his China owns us bologna. We're not borrowing from China, we're buying our way into that debt by importing so many Chinese products.

Don't China get monies from Carbon Tax too?

 

[Wahbooz]

Don't China get monies from Carbon Tax too?

China announced earlier this year they would implement a carbon tax, but I don't know how that is supposed to be affecting our national debt.

 

[Queen Titania]

China announced earlier this year they would implement a carbon tax, but I don't know how that is supposed to be affecting our national debt.

Yer but Al Gore did some sort of weird deal didn't he ? Which gave China our taxes somehow ............ I forget now and haven't time to go a hunting at the mo.

 

[Wahbooz]

Yer but Al Gore did some sort of weird deal didn't he ? Which gave China our taxes somehow ............ I forget now and haven't time to go a hunting at the mo.

Sorry, Queenie, but I'd have to see evidence of that.

 

[Queen Titania]

Sorry, Queenie, but I'd have to see evidence of that.

Of course I'll have to remember what it was ............... ooooch a bit early for me to get 'the old grey cells' a remembering

 

[NightSwimmer]

Yer but Al Gore did some sort of weird deal didn't he ? Which gave China our taxes somehow ............ I forget now and haven't time to go a hunting at the mo.

Under what authority does a private citizen do "some sort of weird deal" with the Chinese government? It doesn't work that way here in the US. Besides, how would this "weird deal" have affected "your taxes" in the UK?

 

[Queen Titania]

Under what authority does a private citizen do "some sort of weird deal" with the Chinese government? It doesn't work that way here in the US. Besides, how would this "weird deal" have affected "your taxes" in the UK?

I don't remember, which is why I asked ........he set something up?

You tell me where those Climate blaa blaa Taxes go ..all of our Taxes seem to go to Brussels, never to be seen again ............... even their official auditors won't sign off their books and haven't for about 14 or so years !!!!!

 

[NightSwimmer]

I don't remember, which is why I asked ........he set something up?

You tell me where those Climate blaa blaa Taxes go ..all of our Taxes seem to go to Brussels, never to be seen again ............... even their official auditors won't sign off their books and haven't for about 14 or so years !!!!!

I'm not aware of any "Climate blaa blaa taxes".

 

[MaryAnne]

Yer but Al Gore did some sort of weird deal didn't he ? Which gave China our taxes somehow ............ I forget now and haven't time to go a hunting at the mo.

How could Al gore give China anything? He was never more than VP!

Gore did sell his TV station to Jazeera. Time Warner cancelled thei station next day. Now,surprise,they are bringing it back to their line up. I would like to see it. Sure could not be worse than the shouting,screeching scandal mongers who are destroying any credibility they have daily!

 

[Queen Titania]

I'm not aware of any "Climate blaa blaa taxes".

We are ...............

 

[MaryAnne]

Under what authority does a private citizen do "some sort of weird deal" with the Chinese government? It doesn't work that way here in the US. Besides, how would this "weird deal" have affected "your taxes" in the UK?

My question,too, Night. Gore has been a private citizen since 2000, sad to say!