My thoughts about the Hawaiian false alarm

[Deleted member 21794]

The ongoing Native American genocide is partly punishment for Native Americans' historical and present-day resistance to capitalism. The Ponce massacre, Ludlow massacre, Thibodaux massacre, massacres of 1877, Kent State and Jackson State massacres, MOVE bombing, Waco massacre, Ruby Ridge killings all targeted dissidents. Fred Hampton, Mark Clark, Martin Luther King, Filiberto Ojeda Rios, Sandra Bland, LaVoy Finicum, the Omaha 2, the Chicago 7+1, Sacco and Vanzetti, the Rosenbergs, Mooney ...

Just curious why you left out Malcolm X, who was assassinated after telling blacks they were chumps to support the Democratic party. Any reason in particular?

 

[EatTheRich]

Why?

Because Cuba is a threat to big-business rule.

 

[EatTheRich]

Dude the Rosenbergs were convicted Soviet spies. Let's start with that.

So ... killed for their political differences with the regime.

 

[EatTheRich]

Three problems with that if true.

1) The energy of a hurricane drops as it moves over land

2) It travels over long distances dissipating it's energy, including uninhabited areas with no loss of life.

3) A nuke's energy is used up instantaneously in a relatively small high population density area, like a major city.

Good points ... so maybe evacuation that way isn't feasible. So why don't we have a massive public underground bomb shelter system like N. Korea?

 

[EatTheRich]

Just curious why you left out Malcolm X, who was assassinated after telling blacks they were chumps to support the Democratic party. Any reason in particular?

Great example! I goofed big time there.

 

[Dawg]

1. The people organize themselves witrh military precision because they've been through so many drills it comes as second nature.
2. You have boats to evacuate people to, maybe with cargo planes for the next leg of the journey.
3. These are already ready to go because you have been preparing for this eventuality for years ... not less than an hour.
4. You supplant the helicopters with planes (where you can) and speedboats.
5. Since life matters more than property, you can take the speedboat of any rich individual nearby at a moment's notice, as well as cars and busses to get people to pickup sites.
6. You refuel the helicopters in the air.
7. Even if you can't save everyone, you can save a lot more than if you did nothing.

(1) You have 30 minutes and you saw how unorganized they were.
(2) Do you even know where Hawaii is or how close closest land is?
(3) Again did you miss how unprepared they were?
(4) How about Give me A Ticket For A Fast Train
(5) Negative, not w/out key and you would be shit!
(6) From underneath How many MC130's on Island
(7) Few if any

 

[middleview]

Hawaii has a population of 1.5 million people. How does that happen in 20 minutes

All you'd need is one helicopter for every 8 people....where would they fly to?

 

[middleview]

Oh come on now. If Hawaii were to use the Chinook, each could carry 133 people that way 150 pounds each. All they need is 11,278 Chinooks to do the job- all made possible by that capitalism ETR hates so much.

So how do we get 1,500,000 people on over 11,000 helicopters AND get them out of harm's way in time???? Ummmm... lemme get back to on that.

OK, but still, let's play along. The maximum range of the Chinook is 300 nautical miles. Oops... there's nowhere remotely within range of the Chinook. Oops.

The big island...

PS...the Chinook is not carrying any 133 people.

 

[Boca]

Intercepts.

Well that's not quite correct or the system wouldn't have been deployed. But anyway lemme tell you one of my favorite stories about working on the Sprint short range interceptor project.

First you need to know that the terminal event is triggered by a proximity fuse. The reason being that the interceptor at 17,000 miles an hour and the incoming at about the same makes it almost impossible If I recall proximity meant about half a mile.

There were lots of tests but the one I remember most was in 1968 I believe. Two days before it was scheduled Ted Kennedy made a speech on the Senate floor saying about what you said...the system can't work. Our CEO in Bethesda, Md. heard it and called our division President to round up the various people needed to move the test up to the next day. Somehow they were able to manage it.

The target ICBM was launched from California out over the Pacific Ocean and the Sprint missile from the Kwajalein Missile Range in the Marshall Islands. As I recall it was also a test of the Raytheon built radar system that detected the target and fed launch data to the Sprint missile. The on board terminal guidance system would then maneuver the missile to the target. It was more than just successful, the missiles collided at Lord knows how many miles an hour. I believe the intercept was at altitude somewhere between 20 and 30 miles. I could be wrong.

What makes it so memorable though was the flight data and imagery was hustled back to our corporate headquarters and delivered to Kennedy's office with a note from our CEO. That note circulated around the offices for days. I wish I could remember what he had written to the Senator...it was a very long time ago.

What's more we actually had to appeal to the government for payment of fees. You see the tests consisted of certain objectives some of which were to take place after the intercept. Obviously the test was to get into kill range not destroy the target which would land somewhere in the middle of the Pacific along with the interceptor. Because we hit it we couldn't meet those objectives and the award fees were not paid. We won that case too.

So yes, it worked and was deployed at Grand Forks, ND

 

[Queen Titania]

Well that's not quite correct or the system wouldn't have been deployed. But anyway lemme tell you one of my favorite stories about working on the Sprint short range interceptor project.

First you need to know that the terminal event is triggered by a proximity fuse. The reason being that the interceptor at 17,000 miles an hour and the incoming at about the same makes it almost impossible If I recall proximity meant about half a mile.

There were lots of tests but the one I remember most was in 1968 I believe. Two days before it was scheduled Ted Kennedy made a speech on the Senate floor saying about what you said...the system can't work. Our CEO in Bethesda, Md. heard it and called our division President to round up the various people needed to move the test up to the next day. Somehow they were able to manage it.

The target ICBM was launched from California out over the Pacific Ocean and the Sprint missile from the Kwajalein Missile Range in the Marshall Islands. As I recall it was also a test of the Raytheon built radar system that detected the target and fed launch data to the Sprint missile. The on board terminal guidance system would then maneuver the missile to the target. It was more than just successful, the missiles collided at Lord knows how many miles an hour. I believe the intercept was at altitude somewhere between 20 and 30 miles. I could be wrong.

What makes it so memorable though was the flight data and imagery was hustled back to our corporate headquarters and delivered to Kennedy's office with a note from our CEO. That note circulated around the offices for days. I wish I could remember what he had written to the Senator...it was a very long time ago.

What's more we actually had to appeal to the government for payment of fees. You see the tests consisted of certain objectives some of which were to take place after the intercept. Obviously the test was to get into kill range not destroy the target which would land somewhere in the middle of the Pacific along with the interceptor. Because we hit it we couldn't meet those objectives and the award fees were not paid. We won that case too.

So yes, it worked and was deployed at Grand Forks, ND

Why didn't it work in Iraq?

 

[Arkady]

Now they know.
They shoulda realized before (it was a no-brainer).
There is NO plan for the people of Hawaii if NoKo sends a bomb (any kind of bomb) their way. When you are told to get into a building or lie flat on the ground when the warning comes............. and when the estimated time of hit after you've been warned is 20 minutes at most, what else can you do?

So here's a question:
Is it better to know?

Or would it have been better for Hawaiians to have remained oblivious?

Note: This isn't anyone's fault. It is the hazard of living on a remote island. Anyone who lays blame is just stupid.

With the kind of arsenal that NK has, definitely better to know. Their arsenal remains small, both in terms of number of warheads and in terms of yields. And there's no reason to think they have mastered the art of delivering them with accuracy. So, any likely attack using nuclear missiles on Hawaii could mean a handful of near-misses -- enough to kill lots of people out in the open, but something that's highly survivable if you're in a shelter. Keep in mind, we're talking about Hiroshima-scale nukes, and about 70% of Hiroshima's population survived. And that's in a city that was already desperately under-supplied thanks to many years of war, and utterly ignorant about how to deal with radiation illnesses. In a wealthy modern city, with good supplies and know-how, more could be done to save people.

As weird as it is to say, I wonder if maybe we're a bit safer from NK these days, with their focus on missiles, than we were a few years ago, when they had no other option for delivering nukes than smuggling them. Think about it -- if you were in a city Kim had decided to attack, which would you rather have happen: (1) he fires a missile from thousands of miles away -- with the very real possibility it blows up on launch, or goes astray, or jars something loose that prevents proper detonation, and even if it does make it, you've got time to get to a shelter, or (2) he just smuggles it into the city center and detonates it without warning.

 

[Arkady]

Well that's not quite correct or the system wouldn't have been deployed. But anyway lemme tell you one of my favorite stories about working on the Sprint short range interceptor project.

First you need to know that the terminal event is triggered by a proximity fuse. The reason being that the interceptor at 17,000 miles an hour and the incoming at about the same makes it almost impossible If I recall proximity meant about half a mile.

There were lots of tests but the one I remember most was in 1968 I believe. Two days before it was scheduled Ted Kennedy made a speech on the Senate floor saying about what you said...the system can't work. Our CEO in Bethesda, Md. heard it and called our division President to round up the various people needed to move the test up to the next day. Somehow they were able to manage it.

The target ICBM was launched from California out over the Pacific Ocean and the Sprint missile from the Kwajalein Missile Range in the Marshall Islands. As I recall it was also a test of the Raytheon built radar system that detected the target and fed launch data to the Sprint missile. The on board terminal guidance system would then maneuver the missile to the target. It was more than just successful, the missiles collided at Lord knows how many miles an hour. I believe the intercept was at altitude somewhere between 20 and 30 miles. I could be wrong.

What makes it so memorable though was the flight data and imagery was hustled back to our corporate headquarters and delivered to Kennedy's office with a note from our CEO. That note circulated around the offices for days. I wish I could remember what he had written to the Senator...it was a very long time ago.

What's more we actually had to appeal to the government for payment of fees. You see the tests consisted of certain objectives some of which were to take place after the intercept. Obviously the test was to get into kill range not destroy the target which would land somewhere in the middle of the Pacific along with the interceptor. Because we hit it we couldn't meet those objectives and the award fees were not paid. We won that case too.

So yes, it worked and was deployed at Grand Forks, ND

What was the name of the case you won, and the year? I'd like to look it up.

 

[EatTheRich]

(1) You have 30 minutes and you saw how unorganized they were.
(2) Do you even know where Hawaii is or how close closest land is?
(3) Again did you miss how unprepared they were?
(4) How about Give me A Ticket For A Fast Train
(5) Negative, not w/out key and you would be shit!
(6) From underneath How many MC130's on Island
(7) Few if any

Again, their being unprepared is my entire point ... a country that put human welfare ahead of profit would have been prepared, not minutes, but years in advance.

 

[Drumcollie]

It was a come to Jesus moment for them. Anybody else ready? It's free.

And sins are forgiven...Freely. Anyone care to let Bill Clinton know?

 

[Boca]

What was the name of the case you won, and the year? I'd like to look it up.

I haven't a clue it, was 50 years ago. Moreover if you were half as smart a lawyer as you think you are, from the reading it might have occurred to you it was an appeal to the Department of Defense by our company Martin-Marietta Aerospace.

 

[Boca]

Why didn't it work in Iraq?

Queenie, Queenie, Queenie....Dear heart, there were no exoatmospheric Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles used in Iraq to my knowledge.

 

[Queen Titania]

Queenie, Queenie, Queenie....Dear heart, there were no exoatmospheric Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles used in Iraq to my knowledge.

They said there were - for low flying cruise missiles.

 

[Arkady]

I haven't a clue it, was 50 years ago. Moreover if you were half as smart a lawyer as you think you are, from the reading it might have occurred to you it was an appeal to the Department of Defense by our company Martin-Marietta Aerospace.

If you find the case, let me know. I'm curious what the actual facts in it were.

 

[Boca]

If you find the case, let me know. I'm curious what the actual facts in it were.

LOL Counselor....thinking I suppose that that response somehow covers your stupidity about a contractor appealing a decision about his payments outside of the court system.

You're too much...

 

[Boca]

They said there were - for low flying cruise missiles.

Maybe so, but if so, they were our cruise missiles launched from our Aegis Class warships with a Vertical Launch system also developed by Martin-Marietta and a project I also worked on. They were probably Tomahawk missiles. Saddam Hussein had no Navy nor anywhere to float it.

Not to mention we weren't about to intercept and destroy what we launched.

Maybe you're thinking about Saddam's SCUD missiles launched against Israel which were destroyed by the Patriot SAM system (Surface to Air Missile Defense System), ariends project I also happened to work on.

I do appreciate though, and excuse, why you wouldn't have any idea about any of this.

Can we still be friends ?