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Oh, my. Et tu, Congress???

PhilFish

Administrator
Staff member
Found the answer to the withholding of funds issue.

Congress itself may order a hold on allocated funds. And has. Look...hundreds of times, without issue.

https://www.justsecurity.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/ukraine-clearinghouse-letter_from_omb_gc_paoletta_to_gao_gc_armstrong-2019.12.11.pdf

Page 8.



In fiscal years 2017-2019 alone, 0MB is aware of Congressional committees directing that billions of dollars of funds appropriated to State and the U.S. Agency for International Development (USABD) be withheld 10 days or more beyond the statutory notice period:

• In FY 2017, Congressional committee holds of 10 days or more beyond the statutory notice period affected more than $6.7 billion in State and USAID funds. This included one hold of 321 days, one hold of 228 days, and three holds of more than 100 days past the statutory notice period. In total, there were at least 115 instances of Congressionally directed holds in foreign aid funds in FY 2017 that extended 10 days or more past the statutory notice period. 20 Id. See also B-221412 (Feb. 12, 1986). 0MB's position that programmatic delays, including programmatic delays that require the use of its apportionment authority, do not constitute deferrals is not new. That distinction was made in 2002. As a result, no President since that time has reported such actions as deferrals. 21478 U.S. 714 (1986). 22 462 U.S. 919 (1983). 23 As the Supreme Court has noted: [A]n agency's allocation of funds from a lump-sum appropriation requires "a complicated balancing of a number of factors which are peculiarly within its expertise": whether its "resources are best spent" on one program or another; whether it "is likely to succeed" in fulfilling its statutory mandate; whether a particular program "best fits the agency's overall policies"; and, "indeed, whether the agency has enough resources" to fund a program "at all." .. .Of course, an agency is not free simply to disregard statutory responsibilities: Congress may always circumscribe agency discretion to allocate resources by putting restrictions in the operative statutes (though not, as we have seen, just in the legislative history). .. And, of course, we hardly need to note that an agency's decision to ignore congressional expectations may expose it to grave political consequences. Lincoln v. Vigil, 508 U.S. 182, 193 (1993) (internal citations omitted). 24 0MB is aware of instances in which Members of Congress demanded that agencies withhold funds for months— and even years—beyond the period required by statute for reasons wholly unrelated to the purpose of the appropriation. 0MB respectfully suggests that GAO take an interest in this practice, as well. • In FY 2018, Congressional committee holds of 10 days or more beyond the statutory notice period affected more than $3.5 billion in State and US AID funds. This included one hold of 201 days and four holds of more than 100 days past the statutory notice period. In total, there were at least 148 instances of Congressionally-directed holds in foreign aid funds in FY 2018 that extended 10 days or more past the statutory notice period. • In FY 2019, Congressional committee holds of 10 days or more beyond the statutory notice period affected more than $762 million in State and USAID funds. In total, there were at least 31 instances of Congressionally-directed holds in foreign aid funds in FY 2019 that extended 10 days or more past the statutory notice period.
 

Bernard_Fokke

Captain Fokke
Supporting Member
Found the answer to the withholding of funds issue.

Congress itself may order a hold on allocated funds. And has. Look...hundreds of times, without issue.

https://www.justsecurity.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/ukraine-clearinghouse-letter_from_omb_gc_paoletta_to_gao_gc_armstrong-2019.12.11.pdf

Page 8.



In fiscal years 2017-2019 alone, 0MB is aware of Congressional committees directing that billions of dollars of funds appropriated to State and the U.S. Agency for International Development (USABD) be withheld 10 days or more beyond the statutory notice period:

• In FY 2017, Congressional committee holds of 10 days or more beyond the statutory notice period affected more than $6.7 billion in State and USAID funds. This included one hold of 321 days, one hold of 228 days, and three holds of more than 100 days past the statutory notice period. In total, there were at least 115 instances of Congressionally directed holds in foreign aid funds in FY 2017 that extended 10 days or more past the statutory notice period. 20 Id. See also B-221412 (Feb. 12, 1986). 0MB's position that programmatic delays, including programmatic delays that require the use of its apportionment authority, do not constitute deferrals is not new. That distinction was made in 2002. As a result, no President since that time has reported such actions as deferrals. 21478 U.S. 714 (1986). 22 462 U.S. 919 (1983). 23 As the Supreme Court has noted: [A]n agency's allocation of funds from a lump-sum appropriation requires "a complicated balancing of a number of factors which are peculiarly within its expertise": whether its "resources are best spent" on one program or another; whether it "is likely to succeed" in fulfilling its statutory mandate; whether a particular program "best fits the agency's overall policies"; and, "indeed, whether the agency has enough resources" to fund a program "at all." .. .Of course, an agency is not free simply to disregard statutory responsibilities: Congress may always circumscribe agency discretion to allocate resources by putting restrictions in the operative statutes (though not, as we have seen, just in the legislative history). .. And, of course, we hardly need to note that an agency's decision to ignore congressional expectations may expose it to grave political consequences. Lincoln v. Vigil, 508 U.S. 182, 193 (1993) (internal citations omitted). 24 0MB is aware of instances in which Members of Congress demanded that agencies withhold funds for months— and even years—beyond the period required by statute for reasons wholly unrelated to the purpose of the appropriation. 0MB respectfully suggests that GAO take an interest in this practice, as well. • In FY 2018, Congressional committee holds of 10 days or more beyond the statutory notice period affected more than $3.5 billion in State and US AID funds. This included one hold of 201 days and four holds of more than 100 days past the statutory notice period. In total, there were at least 148 instances of Congressionally-directed holds in foreign aid funds in FY 2018 that extended 10 days or more past the statutory notice period. • In FY 2019, Congressional committee holds of 10 days or more beyond the statutory notice period affected more than $762 million in State and USAID funds. In total, there were at least 31 instances of Congressionally-directed holds in foreign aid funds in FY 2019 that extended 10 days or more past the statutory notice period.
Phil obviously you just don't understand...This is congress and that's different my friend. ;)

Edit: I think the thing that jumps out at me in the top post is the ultimate hypocrisy of the entire system.
 
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PhilFish

Administrator
Staff member
Phil obviously you just don't understand...This is congress and that's different my friend. ;)
ok.

but literally hundreds of times...kind of jumps out at you.

so.,.. unprecedented...out the window
unconstitutional...out
illegal..out
unheard of..out
criminal..out
first of its kind.. out
 

UPNYA2

Mayor
ok.

but literally hundreds of times...kind of jumps out at you.

so.,.. unprecedented...out the window
unconstitutional...out
illegal..out
unheard of..out
criminal..out
first of its kind.. out
ability to accept the relevancy... out
 

Bugsy McGurk

President
Found the answer to the withholding of funds issue.

Congress itself may order a hold on allocated funds. And has. Look...hundreds of times, without issue.

https://www.justsecurity.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/ukraine-clearinghouse-letter_from_omb_gc_paoletta_to_gao_gc_armstrong-2019.12.11.pdf

Page 8.



In fiscal years 2017-2019 alone, 0MB is aware of Congressional committees directing that billions of dollars of funds appropriated to State and the U.S. Agency for International Development (USABD) be withheld 10 days or more beyond the statutory notice period:

• In FY 2017, Congressional committee holds of 10 days or more beyond the statutory notice period affected more than $6.7 billion in State and USAID funds. This included one hold of 321 days, one hold of 228 days, and three holds of more than 100 days past the statutory notice period. In total, there were at least 115 instances of Congressionally directed holds in foreign aid funds in FY 2017 that extended 10 days or more past the statutory notice period. 20 Id. See also B-221412 (Feb. 12, 1986). 0MB's position that programmatic delays, including programmatic delays that require the use of its apportionment authority, do not constitute deferrals is not new. That distinction was made in 2002. As a result, no President since that time has reported such actions as deferrals. 21478 U.S. 714 (1986). 22 462 U.S. 919 (1983). 23 As the Supreme Court has noted: [A]n agency's allocation of funds from a lump-sum appropriation requires "a complicated balancing of a number of factors which are peculiarly within its expertise": whether its "resources are best spent" on one program or another; whether it "is likely to succeed" in fulfilling its statutory mandate; whether a particular program "best fits the agency's overall policies"; and, "indeed, whether the agency has enough resources" to fund a program "at all." .. .Of course, an agency is not free simply to disregard statutory responsibilities: Congress may always circumscribe agency discretion to allocate resources by putting restrictions in the operative statutes (though not, as we have seen, just in the legislative history). .. And, of course, we hardly need to note that an agency's decision to ignore congressional expectations may expose it to grave political consequences. Lincoln v. Vigil, 508 U.S. 182, 193 (1993) (internal citations omitted). 24 0MB is aware of instances in which Members of Congress demanded that agencies withhold funds for months— and even years—beyond the period required by statute for reasons wholly unrelated to the purpose of the appropriation. 0MB respectfully suggests that GAO take an interest in this practice, as well. • In FY 2018, Congressional committee holds of 10 days or more beyond the statutory notice period affected more than $3.5 billion in State and US AID funds. This included one hold of 201 days and four holds of more than 100 days past the statutory notice period. In total, there were at least 148 instances of Congressionally-directed holds in foreign aid funds in FY 2018 that extended 10 days or more past the statutory notice period. • In FY 2019, Congressional committee holds of 10 days or more beyond the statutory notice period affected more than $762 million in State and USAID funds. In total, there were at least 31 instances of Congressionally-directed holds in foreign aid funds in FY 2019 that extended 10 days or more past the statutory notice period.
Of course. That’s the way our laws operate.

And then we have Trump, who withheld aid illegally, and surreptitiously, through skullduggery in order to obtain the personal/political objectives he demanded.
 

NinaS

Senator
Supporting Member
Of course. That’s the way our laws operate.

And then we have Trump, who withheld aid illegally, and surreptitiously, through skullduggery in order to obtain the personal/political objectives he demanded.
You forget, Trump thinks he is Putin and this is a dictatorship. He doesn't have to answer to Congress or anyone else and as you can see his defenders think that is A-OK. Have you been watching The news about Russia and Little Vladimir Putin's antics there? He has changed their constitution to give himself another term or whatever they Call it there. That's probably next on trumps agenda after he gets enough money taken from other things like possibly Social Security or the military or whatever to build his vanity wall he's already calling it the Trump wall. What an obnoxious egotistical narcissistic old man
 
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Nutty Cortez

Dummy (D) NY
You forget, Trump thinks he is Putin and this is a dictatorship. He doesn't have to answer to Congress or anyone else and as you can see his defenders think that is A-OK. Have you been watching The news about Russia and Little Vladimir Putin's antics there? He has changed their constitution to give himself another term or whatever they Call it there. That's probably next on trumps agenda after he gets enough money taken from other things like possibly Social Security or the military or whatever to build his vanity wall he's already calling it the Trump wall. What an obnoxious egotistical narcissistic that's probably next on trumps agenda after he gets enough money taken from other things like possibly Social Security or the military or whatever to build his vanity wall. He already calls it the Trump wall. What an obnoxious egotistical narcissistic old man!

And the most irrelevant post goes to: This one above!!!!.

Congrats !
 

Nutty Cortez

Dummy (D) NY
ok.

but literally hundreds of times...kind of jumps out at you.

so.,.. unprecedented...out the window
unconstitutional...out
illegal..out
unheard of..out
criminal..out
first of its kind.. out

My base is full of drama queens.

Screaming 'dictatorship!' 'tyrant' criminal ! LOL

Even my leftists know it's BS
 

EatTheRich

President
Phil obviously you just don't understand...This is congress and that's different my friend. ;)

Edit: I think the thing that jumps out at me in the top post is the ultimate hypocrisy of the entire system.
It’s very different. Separation of powers means that Congress can legitimately exercise the powers of Congress, but the president cannot legitimately usurp the powers of Congress.
 

PhilFish

Administrator
Staff member
Of course. That’s the way our laws operate.

And then we have Trump, who withheld aid illegally, and surreptitiously, through skullduggery in order to obtain the personal/political objectives he demanded.

Hmmm no.

The gao assessment numerous apportionment and filings
 

NinaS

Senator
Supporting Member
It’s very different. Separation of powers means that Congress can legitimately exercise the powers of Congress, but the president cannot legitimately usurp the powers of Congress.
Only one President seems to be allowed to do that.
 

NinaS

Senator
Supporting Member
When it comes to foreign policy, he's more powerful than congress.
Yeah Yeah....this thread proves just how warped you people are...pretending that Trump has the right to do whatever he wants....Oh, that's what he said, isn't it?
Excuse by Trumpies: WELL Congress did it!! Disgusting. Not worth arguing about. If you want a dictatorship...you have the right guy. Anyone decent wouldn't want that kind of power...Anyone Patriotic.
 

NinaS

Senator
Supporting Member
Trump is the latest and most blatant (since Roosevelt) in a long string of would-be imperial presidents.
I haven't heard any sound bites of any President in my time talking about staying in office for another term and seeming to envy those dictators who are "dictator for life". He's the latest and most blatant about many things and he gets by with it.
 

Colorforms

Senator
Yeah Yeah....this thread proves just how warped you people are...pretending that Trump has the right to do whatever he wants....Oh, that's what he said, isn't it?
Excuse by Trumpies: WELL Congress did it!! Disgusting. Not worth arguing about. If you want a dictatorship...you have the right guy. Anyone decent wouldn't want that kind of power...Anyone Patriotic.
But the dictator is on your side. Schiff doesn't even want to allow the American people to choose their next president. :)
 
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