Open question

[Arkady]

What's behind people in developed nations working fewer and fewer hours in recent years? In 2000, the average worker in an OECD nation worked 1829 hours per year. Now it's down to 1763. The US has seen our hours decline, too, but more slowly than most, such that we've actually risen up the rankings (from 20th in 2000 to 15th in 2016).

Is this just the result of technological improvements decreasing the number of hours needed to keep people in the state they are comfortable being in? The countries at the top of the list tend to be poorer nations with underdeveloped infrastructure and social safety nets (Mexico, Chile, Costa Rica, Greece, Russia, etc.), so maybe that's it -- people will work like dogs when their material needs aren't met with less, but start cutting back otherwise. All the nations that work few hours are wealthy, high-quality-of-life nations (Germany, Netherlands, Norway, Denmark, and France.)

 

[EatTheRich]

What's behind people in developed nations working fewer and fewer hours in recent years? In 2000, the average worker in an OECD nation worked 1829 hours per year. Now it's down to 1763. The US has seen our hours decline, too, but more slowly than most, such that we've actually risen up the rankings (from 20th in 2000 to 15th in 2016).

Is this just the result of technological improvements decreasing the number of hours needed to keep people in the state they are comfortable being in? The countries at the top of the list tend to be poorer nations with underdeveloped infrastructure and social safety nets (Mexico, Chile, Costa Rica, Greece, Russia, etc.), so maybe that's it -- people will work like dogs when their material needs aren't met with less, but start cutting back otherwise. All the nations that work few hours are wealthy, high-quality-of-life nations (Germany, Netherlands, Norway, Denmark, and France.)

This is hard to follow without a link. I infer that "the list" in paragraph two ranks countries by hours worked. Is this a mean average for people with jobs (which ones?), for all those in the labor force, or for individuals as a whole? Or a median?

Hard to comment on without knowing exactly what the data represent. But an alternative that suggests itself is that there is less work available as the economy has slowed down.

 

[Capitalist]

What's behind people in developed nations working fewer and fewer hours in recent years?

The Great Recession.

Oh I know your (cough) rebuttal. STATISTICS!

Yeah. Whatever. Only goes to show you: The way you make statistics say exactly what you want is to control what is being counted.

 

[4/15]

I know people who live in the well to do european nations and they work fewer hours as it makes room for others to enjoy the benefits of work such as money and vacations.

 

[BobbyT]

I know people who live in the well to do european nations and they work fewer hours as it makes room for others to enjoy the benefits of work such as money and vacations.

I agree, I do too. In Sweden, which is the country I know best as I have relatives who are from there or live there), people look askance at the idea of "workaholics." People who have families but typically work more than a 40 hour workweek are seen as shirking their family responsibilities, and companies that require people to routinely work more than 40 hours are seen as abusing their employees for profits and that is seen as crass and wrong.

The difference is cultural. In the US, people's value is seen as reflected by their work position (e.g., professional vs blue collar vs pink collar) and by the hours they work (at least, if those hours are in "professional" work as opposed to working 60 hours a week at three different "menial" jobs). In the US, if one works a lot of extra hours, they are seen as working hard to provide [money] for their family. In Sweden, if one works a lot of extra hours, they are seen as depriving their family. Too, in Sweden, the government provides some of what makes living here so expensive (e.g., medical care) so they don't have to work so hard to have money put away for a "rainy day" such as a cancer diagnoses like we do here in the US. The bottom line, to me, is that Sweden as a country values families and family time. The US values money.

 

[marvin martian]

I agree, I do too. In Sweden, which is the country I know best as I have relatives who are from there or live there), people look askance at the idea of "workaholics." People who have families but typically work more than a 40 hour workweek are seen as shirking their family responsibilities, and companies that require people to routinely work more than 40 hours are seen as abusing their employees for profits and that is seen as crass and wrong.

The difference is cultural. In the US, people's value is seen as reflected by their work position (e.g., professional vs blue collar vs pink collar) and by the hours they work (at least, if those hours are in "professional" work as opposed to working 60 hours a week at three different "menial" jobs). In the US, if one works a lot of extra hours, they are seen as working hard to provide [money] for their family. In Sweden, if one works a lot of extra hours, they are seen as depriving their family. Too, in Sweden, the government provides some of what makes living here so expensive (e.g., medical care) so they don't have to work so hard to have money put away for a "rainy day" such as a cancer diagnoses like we do here in the US. The bottom line, to me, is that Sweden as a country values families and family time. The US values money.

Sounds like your decision is simple! Bon voyage!

 

[BobbyT]

Sounds like your decision is simple! Bon voyage!

What decision?

 

[marvin martian]

What decision?

Oh, did you already emigrate to Sweden? What did you think of their immigration laws? Do you know what their immigration laws are?

 

[SouthernBoyI]

S

I agree, I do too. In Sweden, which is the country I know best as I have relatives who are from there or live there), people look askance at the idea of "workaholics." People who have families but typically work more than a 40 hour workweek are seen as shirking their family responsibilities, and companies that require people to routinely work more than 40 hours are seen as abusing their employees for profits and that is seen as crass and wrong.

The difference is cultural. In the US, people's value is seen as reflected by their work position (e.g., professional vs blue collar vs pink collar) and by the hours they work (at least, if those hours are in "professional" work as opposed to working 60 hours a week at three different "menial" jobs). In the US, if one works a lot of extra hours, they are seen as working hard to provide [money] for their family. In Sweden, if one works a lot of extra hours, they are seen as depriving their family. Too, in Sweden, the government provides some of what makes living here so expensive (e.g., medical care) so they don't have to work so hard to have money put away for a "rainy day" such as a cancer diagnoses like we do here in the US. The bottom line, to me, is that Sweden as a country values families and family time. The US values money.

See ya
SB

 

[Dawg]

I agree, I do too. In Sweden, which is the country I know best as I have relatives who are from there or live there), people look askance at the idea of "workaholics." People who have families but typically work more than a 40 hour workweek are seen as shirking their family responsibilities, and companies that require people to routinely work more than 40 hours are seen as abusing their employees for profits and that is seen as crass and wrong.

The difference is cultural. In the US, people's value is seen as reflected by their work position (e.g., professional vs blue collar vs pink collar) and by the hours they work (at least, if those hours are in "professional" work as opposed to working 60 hours a week at three different "menial" jobs). In the US, if one works a lot of extra hours, they are seen as working hard to provide [money] for their family. In Sweden, if one works a lot of extra hours, they are seen as depriving their family. Too, in Sweden, the government provides some of what makes living here so expensive (e.g., medical care) so they don't have to work so hard to have money put away for a "rainy day" such as a cancer diagnoses like we do here in the US. The bottom line, to me, is that Sweden as a country values families and family time. The US values money.

Sweden where citizens love their GUNs

http://world.time.com/2012/12/20/the-swiss-difference-a-gun-culture-that-works/

 

[RickWA]

I agree, I do too. In Sweden, which is the country I know best as I have relatives who are from there or live there), people look askance at the idea of "workaholics." People who have families but typically work more than a 40 hour workweek are seen as shirking their family responsibilities, and companies that require people to routinely work more than 40 hours are seen as abusing their employees for profits and that is seen as crass and wrong.

The difference is cultural. In the US, people's value is seen as reflected by their work position (e.g., professional vs blue collar vs pink collar) and by the hours they work (at least, if those hours are in "professional" work as opposed to working 60 hours a week at three different "menial" jobs). In the US, if one works a lot of extra hours, they are seen as working hard to provide [money] for their family. In Sweden, if one works a lot of extra hours, they are seen as depriving their family. Too, in Sweden, the government provides some of what makes living here so expensive (e.g., medical care) so they don't have to work so hard to have money put away for a "rainy day" such as a cancer diagnoses like we do here in the US. The bottom line, to me, is that Sweden as a country values families and family time. The US values money.

Pretty lazy to directly equate work ethic/work hours and money.

Those money-grubbing pilgrims and puritans...

Look, we all understand the obligatory slouching toward fellow collectivists. That's fine. My mother is from Denmark. I get it. Many people, however, find fulfillment and value in really committing themselves to an enterprise. Rather than illiberally judging them as driven by money and shirking/neglecting family, perhaps we ought to CELEBRATE THE DIFFERENCES as those who were once liberal did. Does that slogan ring a bell?

 

[marvin martian]

Pretty lazy to directly equate work ethic/work hours and money.

Those money-grubbing pilgrims and puritans...

Look, we all understand the obligatory slouching toward fellow collectivists. That's fine. My mother is from Denmark. I get it. Many people, however, find fulfillment and value in really committing themselves to an enterprise. Rather than illiberally judging them as driven by money and shirking/neglecting family, perhaps we ought to CELEBRATE THE DIFFERENCES as those who were once liberal did. Does that slogan ring a bell?

Here's a great example of the liberal "celebration" of diversity of thought:

Clinton's polling numbers went up in the wake of the deplorables comment. It pissed off the halfwits and the sub-human scum who were embarrassed to realize that people recognized how deplorable they were, but they already supported Trump, so it made no difference what they thought.

Question: What's the square root of negative one?

Answer: A Trump voter who isn't sub-human scum.

 

[Dawg]

Pretty lazy to directly equate work ethic/work hours and money.

Those money-grubbing pilgrims and puritans...

Look, we all understand the obligatory slouching toward fellow collectivists. That's fine. My mother is from Denmark. I get it. Many people, however, find fulfillment and value in really committing themselves to an enterprise. Rather than illiberally judging them as driven by money and shirking/neglecting family, perhaps we ought to CELEBRATE THE DIFFERENCES as those who were once liberal did. Does that slogan ring a bell?

Would like stats on farmers that only work 40 hours weekly.......crop loss, yields and spoilage.

 

[Dawg]

Here's a great example of the liberal "celebration" of diversity of thought:

https://stream.org/deplorable-election-over-instant-hillary-said-this-word/

 

[RickWA]

What's behind people in developed nations working fewer and fewer hours in recent years? In 2000, the average worker in an OECD nation worked 1829 hours per year. Now it's down to 1763. The US has seen our hours decline, too, but more slowly than most, such that we've actually risen up the rankings (from 20th in 2000 to 15th in 2016).

Is this just the result of technological improvements decreasing the number of hours needed to keep people in the state they are comfortable being in? The countries at the top of the list tend to be poorer nations with underdeveloped infrastructure and social safety nets (Mexico, Chile, Costa Rica, Greece, Russia, etc.), so maybe that's it -- people will work like dogs when their material needs aren't met with less, but start cutting back otherwise. All the nations that work few hours are wealthy, high-quality-of-life nations (Germany, Netherlands, Norway, Denmark, and France.)

I can't speak for all cultures, let alone all people within those cultures. I will simply speak for myself. I won't sugar coat it here. I derive much of my self-worth from how hard I work. Part of it is the "provider" instinct as husband and father, but that doesn't capture all of it. There's a heavy strain of "suck it up" and "absorb max punishment without grumbling" that I was raised with in my family. My dad is an old school Englishman. While his family was one of means (factory ownership in that heckhole of Birmingham, England), they were tenacious adherents of nose-to-the-grindstonian old Brit grit.

To this day, the one-two punch of working one's tail off and not emoting are key characteristics among family members.

Again, I can't speak for others, but I could readily work far fewer hours. I could have retired when I sold my last company in '15. That's just not who I am.

There is both good and bad that come with this.

 

[RickWA]

Would like stats on farmers that only work 40 hours weekly.......crop loss, yields and spoilage.

I've never met a farmer who didn't start and end his day in the dark.

 

[RickWA]

Here's a great example of the liberal "celebration" of diversity of thought:

Ahh...the internet...cesspool of hyperbole and loathing emboldened by anonymity.

 

[BobbyT]

Oh, did you already emigrate to Sweden? What did you think of their immigration laws? Do you know what their immigration laws are?

No I haven't immigrated to Sweden.

 

[BobbyT]

Pretty lazy to directly equate work ethic/work hours and money.

Those money-grubbing pilgrims and puritans...

Look, we all understand the obligatory slouching toward fellow collectivists. That's fine. My mother is from Denmark. I get it. Many people, however, find fulfillment and value in really committing themselves to an enterprise. Rather than illiberally judging them as driven by money and shirking/neglecting family, perhaps we ought to CELEBRATE THE DIFFERENCES as those who were once liberal did. Does that slogan ring a bell?

It's interesting that you assigned a value judgement to me on whether valuing money or valuing family is better. I didn't say one was better, I just described a difference. Each has its pros and cons. Yes, many people do find fulfillment and value in committing themselves to an enterprise (by which I assume you mean what I was calling professional work; if I'm wrong on that let me know). I am one of those people, thoroughly inculcated into the American value system and content with that. I pointed out a difference between American values and Swedish ones in response to Arkady's post about why Americans work more hours than other countries.

 

[marvin martian]

Would like stats on farmers that only work 40 hours weekly.......crop loss, yields and spoilage.

The mindset @Arkady is coming from is one of a drone worker, not a producer. Anyone who's ever owned a business or worked for themselves in some capacity understands that you do whatever it takes to run the business, get the crops in, get the livestock fed, or get the kids educated. Slaves in useless, do-nothing professions like law have no concept of that ethic.