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Rassmussen poll....Biden +5 Fox news Biden +11

middleview

President
Supporting Member
Obama accumulated record debt. FACT. His war record in Syria, Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya (for starters) speaks for itself. And we haven't even gotten into the people he murdered with drone strikes in other countries.

FACTS matter.
The wars in Afghanistan and Iraq were there when he walked in the door. The war in Syria was an uprising that started when Assad open fire on his own people. The uprising in Libya started in exactly the same way....Gadaffi ordered his troops to open fire on demonstrators. His own army defected as did Assad's troops.

We got involved in Syria because ISIS invaded Iraq from there. Did you miss that? It was in all the papers. We got involved in Libya because Nato did.

Are you trying to say that non-combatants were not killed in either Afghanistan or Iraq when Bush started those wars? Do you think none have died there since Trump took over?

Do you think Trump quit using drones? Did you think Obama was the first to use them?
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
So Obama didn't fix healthcare, correct?
I never said the ACA was perfect and have offered ideas on better ways to have implemented it. The fact is that Trump says "Repeal and Replace", but the fact is that he means "Repeal".

The republicans had the chance to improve the ACA...they didn't. Do you believe that it is ok for 50 million people to be unable to afford insurance?

PS: The republicans didn't even try.
 

Max R.

On the road
Supporting Member
I never said the ACA was perfect and have offered ideas on better ways to have implemented it. The fact is that Trump says "Repeal and Replace", but the fact is that he means "Repeal".

The republicans had the chance to improve the ACA...they didn't. Do you believe that it is ok for 50 million people to be unable to afford insurance?

PS: The republicans didn't even try.
I fault Obama for ramming through healthcare too soon and how he did it...which was basically letting Pelosi have the ball and kept it away from the Republicans.

OTOH, I also fault the Republicans for not only saying "no" to anything Obama wanted but for painting themselves into a corner with "repeal" not "fix".
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
I fault Obama for ramming through healthcare too soon and how he did it...which was basically letting Pelosi have the ball and kept it away from the Republicans.

OTOH, I also fault the Republicans for not only saying "no" to anything Obama wanted but for painting themselves into a corner with "repeal" not "fix".
Remember the timeline.

Obama won in November 2008. On election night the republicans announced that they intended to stop anything and everything Obama tried to do.

Obama knew in 2010 that he was about to lose the Dem control of the House. There was a short fuse at that point to get it in. They may well have thought they'd have at least two years to amend it....if the repubs didn't block any changes.

Republicans made numerous changes in the bill. The mandate was a republican requirement. Look at the Heritage version from when they killed HillaryCare.
Even with the changes suggested by republicans, they still didn't let one single repub vote for it.

The good of the ACA is ignored by most. Letting my son stay on my policy until 26 cost the insurance company nothing at all. Refusing to allow insurance companies to kick you out of coverage if they could find an excuse was fair. My wife was dropped, after 20 years with Aetna, because it was discovered she had cystic fibrosis....a pre-existing condition. She was diagnosed at 50 years old and died 5 years later...If they'd gotten away with dropping us I would have been bankrupt after a year.

As a restaurant owner I was approached by an insurance broker trying to get me to offer a "Mini-Med" plan for my employees. It was a rip off and the main sell was that I would get a kickback for every employee on the deal. Those were banned by the ACA.

An example of a mini-med was McDonald's restaurants had their McCrew Care. Employees paid $56 per month for a plan that would pay a max of $2,000 per year.
 

Max R.

On the road
Supporting Member
Remember the timeline.

Obama won in November 2008. On election night the republicans announced that they intended to stop anything and everything Obama tried to do.

Obama knew in 2010 that he was about to lose the Dem control of the House. There was a short fuse at that point to get it in. They may well have thought they'd have at least two years to amend it....if the repubs didn't block any changes.

Republicans made numerous changes in the bill. The mandate was a republican requirement. Look at the Heritage version from when they killed HillaryCare.
Even with the changes suggested by republicans, they still didn't let one single repub vote for it.

The good of the ACA is ignored by most. Letting my son stay on my policy until 26 cost the insurance company nothing at all. Refusing to allow insurance companies to kick you out of coverage if they could find an excuse was fair. My wife was dropped, after 20 years with Aetna, because it was discovered she had cystic fibrosis....a pre-existing condition. She was diagnosed at 50 years old and died 5 years later...If they'd gotten away with dropping us I would have been bankrupt after a year.

As a restaurant owner I was approached by an insurance broker trying to get me to offer a "Mini-Med" plan for my employees. It was a rip off and the main sell was that I would get a kickback for every employee on the deal. Those were banned by the ACA.

An example of a mini-med was McDonald's restaurants had their McCrew Care. Employees paid $56 per month for a plan that would pay a max of $2,000 per year.
I readily agree our nation needed (needs) healthcare reform. A major problem with ACA is that it didn't do anything to reduce costs, it just spread them around to young people then forced those same young people into the program as a funding source.

The Democrats are voicing a similar program with "free college"; doing nothing to reduce costs and just spreading the burden to other taxpayers.
 

reason10

Mayor
Aww, now you’re being s little drama queen. That’s cute. : )

Trump hasn’t messed it up, he’s continued on the improvements made by Obama. The trade war isn’t working, but he hasn’t made too many big mistakes and progress has continued. But more improvement was made in Obama’s second term, the numbers are there.
Why are you snowflakes continuing that [Unwelcome language removed] lie when you know it is a lie and you know everybody else knows it is a lie?

There is NO improvement on the disastrous Obama economy and you know it. He even admitted it himself.

Then as soon as Trump fixed it, he tried to take credit for it and idiots like you let him get away with it.

You have already lost that argument over and over again and now you just look [Unwelcome language removed] pathetic.

https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/obama-trump-booming-economy/
For eight years, President Obama presided over the worst economic recovery in modern times. For six years, he blamed Republicans in Congress for thwarting his spending agenda and hampering growth. In his last two years in office, he claimed that 2% growth was the best we could hope for. And in his last year in office, while the economy was again stalling out, Obama claimed that Trump's tax cuts and deregulation would only make things worse.


But now that we're in the midst of a booming economy — which kicked in after Trump reversed almost all Obama's economic policies — we're supposed to believe that it's Obama who deserves all the credit.


Yep. That's precisely what Obama and his Amen Chorus in the press want us to believe.


In his speech in Illinois last Friday, Obama complained that Republicans were taking credit for his work.

AND


There's more. The rate of GDP growth was decelerating in Obama's last year. It went from 2.3% in Q2, to 1.9% in Q3 to 1.8% in Q4 of 2016. Under Trump, GDP growth has averaged 2.9%. It was 4.2% last quarter and might be higher in the current one.

The stock market also was stuck in neutral the year before the November 2016 elections. The Dow is up by some 45% since then.

Real median family income didn't budge from August 2015 to November 2016, according to Sentier Research. It's up more than 4% since Trump came into office. Wages are on the upswing.

In Obama's last year, unemployment rate remained basically unchanged — it was 4.9% in Jan 2016, and 4.8% when Trump took office in Jan. 2017. Now it's down to 3.9%


This is not Obama's [Unwelcome language removed] economy and that lying sack of shit does not deserve one [Unwelcome language removed] iota of credit for it.
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
I readily agree our nation needed (needs) healthcare reform. A major problem with ACA is that it didn't do anything to reduce costs, it just spread them around to young people then forced those same young people into the program as a funding source.

The Democrats are voicing a similar program with "free college"; doing nothing to reduce costs and just spreading the burden to other taxpayers.
The ACA did limit how insurance companies spent money. Only a certain percentage could go to executive pay, for instance. A set portion of premiums was required to go to patient care. You're right that the costs of medical care were not controlled in any way. The thought being more customers would bring the costs down. I think one thing that should be done is to audit providers to determine who is raking in the cash.

One pill my wife had to take was $400 per day. 60 minutes just did a story on drug companies and price fixing. I'm not sure what the solution is, but stories like that and the woman who fired up a company and became a billionaire by selling smoke and mirrors, make me suspicious.
 
The ACA did limit how insurance companies spent money. Only a certain percentage could go to executive pay, for instance. A set portion of premiums was required to go to patient care. You're right that the costs of medical care were not controlled in any way. The thought being more customers would bring the costs down. I think one thing that should be done is to audit providers to determine who is raking in the cash.

One pill my wife had to take was $400 per day. 60 minutes just did a story on drug companies and price fixing. I'm not sure what the solution is, but stories like that and the woman who fired up a company and became a billionaire by selling smoke and mirrors, make me suspicious.
President Trump is taking action to lower drug prices, instead of colluding with the health insurance companies to screw people like Obama did. Open your eyes and stop the hate...

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/05/health/drug-prices-rebates-sotu.html
 

middleview

President
Supporting Member
Why are you snowflakes continuing that [Unwelcome language removed] lie when you know it is a lie and you know everybody else knows it is a lie?

There is NO improvement on the disastrous Obama economy and you know it. He even admitted it himself.

Then as soon as Trump fixed it, he tried to take credit for it and idiots like you let him get away with it.

You have already lost that argument over and over again and now you just look [Unwelcome language removed] pathetic.

https://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/obama-trump-booming-economy/
For eight years, President Obama presided over the worst economic recovery in modern times. For six years, he blamed Republicans in Congress for thwarting his spending agenda and hampering growth. In his last two years in office, he claimed that 2% growth was the best we could hope for. And in his last year in office, while the economy was again stalling out, Obama claimed that Trump's tax cuts and deregulation would only make things worse.


But now that we're in the midst of a booming economy — which kicked in after Trump reversed almost all Obama's economic policies — we're supposed to believe that it's Obama who deserves all the credit.


Yep. That's precisely what Obama and his Amen Chorus in the press want us to believe.


In his speech in Illinois last Friday, Obama complained that Republicans were taking credit for his work.

AND

There's more. The rate of GDP growth was decelerating in Obama's last year. It went from 2.3% in Q2, to 1.9% in Q3 to 1.8% in Q4 of 2016. Under Trump, GDP growth has averaged 2.9%. It was 4.2% last quarter and might be higher in the current one.

The stock market also was stuck in neutral the year before the November 2016 elections. The Dow is up by some 45% since then.

Real median family income didn't budge from August 2015 to November 2016, according to Sentier Research. It's up more than 4% since Trump came into office. Wages are on the upswing.

In Obama's last year, unemployment rate remained basically unchanged — it was 4.9% in Jan 2016, and 4.8% when Trump took office in Jan. 2017. Now it's down to 3.9%


This is not Obama's [Unwelcome language removed] economy and that lying sack of shit does not deserve one [Unwelcome language removed] iota of credit for it.
So did you think bolding your story and bumping up the font made it more truthful?

The unemployment rate by Feb 1st 2017 was 4.5%. Trump hadn't even figured out where the nearest bathroom to the oval office was.

It was 4.6% in December and headed south.

Unemployment Rate Drops To 4.6 Percent, Lowest Level Since 2007
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/12/02/504115031/unemployment-rate-drops-to-4-6-percent-lowest-level-since-2007



It is now 3.6%. So Trump brought it down a whopping .9%...Obama brought it down from 10% to 4.5%.

Meanwhile, the labor force participation rate fell slightly from March to 62.8%, but was unchanged from the year prior.

upload_2019-5-22_17-7-46.png
 
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