Reparations for slavery?

[Sunset Rose]

I haven't heard any of the 2020 Democrat Presidential candidates talk about reparations lately. I hope they are serious about this issue and not just trying to get African-American's votes.

 

[Bronwyn]

“Just like everyone else” except that the educational opportunities available to most Black people are inferior to the educational opportunities available to most white people. Just like job opportunities and credit opportunities.

If you think affirmative action discharges the ruling class’s debt to Blacks for centuries of unpaid labor and human rights abuses for profit, can I assume that you vigorously oppose any efforts to get rid of it?

So you think K_12th grade public schools deny black children? If they don't have the education or background they don't get the job, just like anyone else. If they screw up their credit they don't get the house, just like everyone else. You do know there are laws against discrimination don't you? They are afforded the SAME opportunities to succeed that everyone else and in many cases are even afforded more. Quit fooling yourself.

 

[Bronwyn]

They wouldn't need Affirmative Action if the playing field had been level to begin with.
"Welfare mongers". Is that how you refer to all poor people---or only Black ones?

Multi-generational? Yes.

 

[Sunset Rose]

so why do they owe?

if you great grandfather were discovered to have left behind a $100000 debt....do you owe it?

If somebody owed your ancestor money, but never paid him, would you want that money that was owed to your ancestor?

 

[PhilFish]

If somebody owed your ancestor money, but never paid him, would you want that money that was owed to your ancestor?

I in fact am owed (theoretically)...or my family is..extensive lands in the former soviet union. but no, i dont want it.

 

[Sunset Rose]

So you think K_12th grade public schools deny black children? If they don't have the education or background they don't get the job, just like anyone else. If they screw up their credit they don't get the house, just like everyone else. You do know there are laws against discrimination don't you? They are afforded the SAME opportunities to succeed that everyone else and in many cases are even afforded more. Quit fooling yourself.

You are lying to yourself if you believe this.

 

[Sunset Rose]

I in fact am owed (theoretically)...or my family is..extensive lands in the former soviet union. but no, i dont want it.

If there was a reasonable chance you could get the land/money would you want it?

 

[PhilFish]

If there was a reasonable chance you could get the land/money would you want it?

there is no reasonable chance..so no.

 

[EatTheRich]

so why do they owe?

if you great grandfather were discovered to have left behind a $100000 debt....do you owe it?

I’m not a property lawyer, but here’s a better analogy. If my grandfather bequeathed to me $100,000 in stolen property ... am I responsible for returning it to its rightful owner?

 

[PhilFish]

I’m not a property lawyer, but here’s a better analogy. If my grandfather bequeathed to me $100,000 in stolen property ... am I responsible for returning it to its rightful owner?

where you know it is stolen, yes

 

[Sunset Rose]

I’m not a property lawyer, but here’s a better analogy. If my grandfather bequeathed to me $100,000 in stolen property ... am I responsible for returning it to its rightful owner?

Excellent response! Thank you.

 

[Bronwyn]

If somebody owed your ancestor money, but never paid him, would you want that money that was owed to your ancestor?

I’m not a property lawyer, but here’s a better analogy. If my grandfather bequeathed to me $100,000 in stolen property ... am I responsible for returning it to its rightful owner?

If there was proof it was stolen. Stretching to try to make a reason isn't going to win the debate. There was no stolen land. There was no stolen money.

 

[EatTheRich]

So you think K_12th grade public schools deny black children? If they don't have the education or background they don't get the job, just like anyone else. If they screw up their credit they don't get the house, just like everyone else. You do know there are laws against discrimination don't you? They are afforded the SAME opportunities to succeed that everyone else and in many cases are even afforded more. Quit fooling yourself.

I know that opportunities to attend school and do well without being forced out by poverty or violence are unequally distributed by race, that Black students are frequently expelled or suspended for disciplinary infractions that would result in much less serious consequences for a white student, that Black students who excel in school are less likely than white students who excel to be invited into gifted programs, and that schools in Black-majority neighborhoods often have grossly inferior facilities, materials, and social environments. I know that banks are less likely to give the same loans (or more likely to require higher interest rates, extra points or extra collateral) to Blacks than whites with the same credit scores. I know that Blacks must have superior educations to have an even chance of getting a job instead of a white person with otherwise identical experience.

The discrimination laws depend on toothless agencies and expensive lawsuits to enforce, and afford a presumption of innocence to the accused that is made very hard to rebut by something as seemingly irrelevant as evidence of discrimination. Thus they are honored as much in the breach as in the observance.

 

[EatTheRich]

I in fact am owed (theoretically)...or my family is..extensive lands in the former soviet union. but no, i dont want it.

You could probably transfer your claims to a group like the Black Family Land Trust and help individuals who don’t have the luxury of waiving their legal title to property.

 

[EatTheRich]

If there was proof it was stolen. Stretching to try to make a reason isn't going to win the debate. There was no stolen land. There was no stolen money.

Sure there was. Discussed in this thread:

1. The stolen wages of generations of slaves.
2. The stolen deposits at the Freedman’s Savings Bank.
3. The land stolen from Black farmers via private (banking) and public (USDA) discrimination.
4. The 40 acres and a mule Black freedmen were promised and did not receive.

 

[Bronwyn]

I know that opportunities to attend school and do well without being forced out by poverty or violence are unequally distributed by race, that Black students are frequently expelled or suspended for disciplinary infractions that would result in much less serious consequences for a white student, that Black students who excel in school are less likely than white students who excel to be invited into gifted programs, and that schools in Black-majority neighborhoods often have grossly inferior facilities, materials, and social environments. I know that banks are less likely to give the same loans (or more likely to require higher interest rates, extra points or extra collateral) to Blacks than whites with the same credit scores. I know that Blacks must have superior educations to have an even chance of getting a job instead of a white person with otherwise identical experience.

The discrimination laws depend on toothless agencies and expensive lawsuits to enforce, and afford a presumption of innocence to the accused that is made very hard to rebut by something as seemingly irrelevant as evidence of discrimination. Thus they are honored as much in the breach as in the observance.

BS. Tell that sob story to Dr. Ben Carson.

 

[Bronwyn]

Sure there was. Discussed in this thread:

1. The stolen wages of generations of slaves.
2. The stolen deposits at the Freedman’s Savings Bank.
3. The land stolen from Black farmers via private (banking) and public (USDA) discrimination.
4. The 40 acres and a mule Black freedmen were promised and did not receive.

Again BS.

 

[EatTheRich]

BS. Tell that sob story to Dr. Ben Carson.

BS. Tell that sob story to Dr. Ben Carson.

James McCune Smith got a medical degree in 1837. Does that mean that there was no race discrimination in the U.S. in 1837?

 

[Bronwyn]

James McCune Smith got a medical degree in 1837. Does that mean that there was no race discrimination in the U.S. in 1837?

Does it mean that he overcame poverty and racism to become a Dr.? So tell us why can't other blacks? What is their excuse if other Black people, (and millions of others) can and do overcome obstacles to their success?

 

[EatTheRich]

Does it mean that he overcame poverty and racism to become a Dr.? So tell us why can't other blacks? What is their excuse if other Black people, (and millions of others) can and do overcome obstacles to their success?

Not all Black people in his time benefitted from the left-wing political atmosphere that abolished slavery in New York and organized the free public schools he was able to attend. Beyond that, he was able through exceptional talent (and male sex privilege) to do what comparatively unexceptional whites could do through race privilege. The fact that discrimination is not an absolute barrier to the success of this or that individual does not mean that it isn’t a barrier to the success of individuals of the same race in numbers more than a handful.