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Should we have a minimum wage, and if so, how high should it be.

Is the government better at determining what a small business can afford to pay its employees or is the business owner?

Every time the minimum wage is raised, it cuts another rung off the bottom of the economic ladder, and makes it that much harder for a person to enter the workforce, get on the ladder, and start working his way. up the ladder.

I suggest we do away with the federal minimum wage, and let the individual states set the policy if they so choose.
 

connieb

Senator
I would agree with that. I think there is too much difference between what is a minimum in one state, versus what is a minimum in another state.

The reality is we can't say how much is enough because that depends on a person's circumstances. When I was 20, single, working my way through college and supporting myself, I made $9 an hour. That was enough money to rent an apartment, pay for car insurance, pay a VERY modest car payment, pay utilities, food, HI, etc. When I had roommates I made $7.85 with my shift differential and could also support myself including HI. Both of those rates were over the minimum wage at the time. But, we live in a high COL area. Perhaps the minimum in KY would have been more manageable.

However, that is vastly different than trying to support a family on that without government aid. So, should the minimum be raised so to cover families - or is it incumbent upon the individual to consider their earning potential and abilities as they plan for their futures. I.E. I had no children by choice at 20 because I could not afford them. At 28, married, with my career on track is when I felt like we could afford children.

I don't think minimum wage jobs are intended to be a person's career. If they are - then there is something wrong here. Either the person is a subpar employee OR they lack the education, etc. And, we need to fix those problems if we can. Unfortunately we can't force people to show up to work or be productive when they get there..... so there is only so much we can do. But, I have never known anyone who was an exceptional employee who stayed making the minimum at any business for very long. I personally don't know anyone who can read and write in english who wasn't making the minimum wage after HS.

connie
 

JuliefromOhio

President
Supporting Member
Every time the minimum wage is raised, it cuts another rung off the bottom of the economic ladder, and makes it that much harder for a person to enter the workforce, get on the ladder, and start working his way. up the ladder.
FALSE.

raising the minimum wage boosts the economy.
 

fairsheet

Senator
The minimum wage should be pegged at a number that approximates that at which the average person can cover her basic necessities of life and attend a public institution of higher learning. That's where it was pegged back in the 70's. That figure enabled me to be a significant net contributor to our American society, ever since.

That's not where it's pegged now. Now, the "idea" seems to be to set it at a level that "starves" people into magically turning themselves into net contributors, sans the requisite eductation. That "idea" isn't "conservative". It's pathetic-radical.
 
G

Greenridgeman

Guest
Because YOU said so....?????

Tell that to the 50% of black teens that cannot get an entry level job.
 
G

Greenridgeman

Guest
Why not just a "living allowance" to every citizen, mailed at the first of the month.

Then the illegals can do the shit jobs Americans will not perform, for whatever wage they can negotiate.
 
U

Union_Jack_1972

Guest
Is the government better at determining what a small business can afford to pay its employees or is the business owner?

Every time the minimum wage is raised, it cuts another rung off the bottom of the economic ladder, and makes it that much harder for a person to enter the workforce, get on the ladder, and start working his way. up the ladder.

I suggest we do away with the federal minimum wage, and let the individual states set the policy if they so choose.
States still regulate at their level, but are require to meet the Federal Min...

Some states like Cali, Oregon, and a few others regulate their min. wage to be higher than the Federal Standard because of the cost of living in those states. So in the end the States do regulate their min. wage.

Now to answer the question, I agree kick it to the states because each state has a different cost living scale but I am sure the left will deny this because let face it they believe rent is the same in San Fran as it is in San Antonio... :)
 

888888

Council Member
There are many Mim. wages. The federal one is the law with exceptions. Employers fall into different groups on what they can pay, and employees fall into different groups on what they can be paid. Also states can set mim's at a higher rate if their economy needs it, like maybe a New York area.

I don't know all the why things are done, but I do know there are many things that go into what is a total package of Mim wages.

My wife just took a job today at a school preparing lunches and it pays mim wage, and she doesn't even know what that figure is as she didn't ask. Shes doing it as way to get some needed cash for her wants. So many people get into jobs at certain times in their lives that do not lead to a better job or hire wages. She was a supervisor at one time about 11 years ago making 55,000 a year. Couldn't find a job that paid what she wanted so she didn't go back to work and instead became a house wife and a public volunteer. Now times are a little tough so she is working once again for at least a while, you know there is a lottery(lol).
 
G

Greenridgeman

Guest
Mnimum wage is as useless as Daylight Savings Time.

Crippled with slow speed dial-up and an aging computer, I cannot do much "googling".

But I'd like a minimum wage proponent to google these:

1. Purchase power of minimum wage at inception, and today.

2. Percentage of teen employment at inception of minimum wage, and today.

3. Percentage of overall employment at inception of minimum wage, and today.

4. Relationship of minimum wage to price of gold at inception, and today.

5. Percentage of US population living in "poverty" at inception of minimum wage and today.



Your high speed net would be appreciated.
 

PhilFish

Administrator
Staff member
Well, um...yeah. Then again..raising welfare enrollment boosts the economy (at least according to some..). Standing on the corner and handing out cash would probably boost the economy too.

Oddly enough..going to college boosts the economy....so does staying in school.

Working two jobs...that boosts as well...
 
G

Greenridgeman

Guest
Sitting down, shutting up, and taking advantage of the free basic education offered is good for the economy too.

More should try it.
 

fairsheet

Senator
States still regulate at their level, but are require to meet the Federal Min...

Some states like Cali, Oregon, and a few others regulate their min. wage to be higher than the Federal Standard because of the cost of living in those states. So in the end the States do regulate their min. wage.

Now to answer the question, I agree kick it to the states because each state has a different cost living scale but I am sure the left will deny this because let face it they believe rent is the same in San Fran as it is in San Antonio... :)
I don't have an absolute opinion around state vs. federal in terms of the minimum wage. BUT..there's a problem with the state-by-state model that discomfits me. It sets the states up in economic competition with one another and as these are the United States, it's not good that we should be racing one another to the bottom.
 

Dino

Russian Asset
Obviously it should be $17.50 or higher. This would insure all have a living wage and alleviates the problems of not being able to afford health care, contraception and a voting ID card.
 
Obviously it should be $17.50 or higher. This would insure all have a living wage and alleviates the problems of not being able to afford health care, contraception and a voting ID card.
So if you were starting a business and could only afford to pay five bucks and hour I guess you'd have to forget about it.

That's exactly what happens. You can't START at the middle of the economic ladder and cutting the bottom off the ladder just leads to high unemployment for workers just getting started.
 

Craig

Senator
Supporting Member
So if you were starting a business and could only afford to pay five bucks and hour I guess you'd have to forget about it.

That's exactly what happens. You can't START at the middle of the economic ladder and cutting the bottom off the ladder just leads to high unemployment for workers just getting started.
Wages are a cost of doing business. The business plan must take that into account. A plan that fails to do so, is a failed plan.

Now...one could seek illegals to work for less...and that could be kids or immigrants, as you prefer.
 

Dino

Russian Asset
I'd say forget it. Starting a business is a rich guy thing, with big start-up costs, governmental red tape, and then the hassle of hiring the workers (making sure not to exclude anyone who can sue you over it), insuring your workers and then producing a product to be sold. Just hit the lottery or something.

Guess it's true, it takes money to make money.
 

Zam-Zam

Senator
Is the government better at determining what a small business can afford to pay its employees or is the business owner?

Every time the minimum wage is raised, it cuts another rung off the bottom of the economic ladder, and makes it that much harder for a person to enter the workforce, get on the ladder, and start working his way. up the ladder.

I suggest we do away with the federal minimum wage, and let the individual states set the policy if they so choose.


There always will be a minimum wage; it's simply a question of who sets it. Your real question, I assume, is should the government set it, or the market place? The government currently has minimum wage laws, which are both good and bad. The good is that, obviously, people with low-paying jobs are guaranteed a minimum amount of recompense. The bad is that it prices some people with limited skill sets out of a potential job so that they receive no recompense at all and likely end up depending on others for subsistence. And minimum wage laws sometimes give employers an incentive to hire "undocumented workers" and pay them very little, which serves to keep yet more American citizens out of work. There is both good and bad in having the government setting the floor on wages and is not a simple black and white issue.
 
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