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Silly Ben Carson

Arkady

President
I know that Ben Carson must be bright in some areas. You don't graduate med school and have a successful medical career without some native intelligence. But the weird crap that pops out of that guy's mouth is awfully hard to square with the idea of an educated person. For example, he is attributing the fall of the Roman Empire to political correctness and gay marriage.

http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2014-10-15/carsons-longshot-presidential-bid-suddenly-looks-a-lot-more-realistic
http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/03/29/ben-carson-marriage-equality-could-destroy-amer/193345

Roman history is a hobby of mine and I can't say I recall any historian ever linking the fall of Rome to political correctness or gay marriage. There are all sorts of theories, stemming from lead poisoning and epidemics to systematic economic breakdowns and economic inequality. The most famous historian of the Fall, though, was Gibbon, and his take on the decline of Rome was almost 180-degrees removed from Carson's. In Gibbon's view, Christianity was the main culprit. As Christianity became more dominant, Rome became less able to incorporate other people into its empire successfully (the insistence on just one God means conquered people are expected to give up their faiths), and the nation became sapped of the will for greatness in this world, as it focused increasingly on mumbo jumbo about the next world.

The late Roman empire is about as far from "politically correct" as it's possible to be. And it actually grew MORE hostile to homosexuality later in the era. Early on, they were more influenced by Hellenistic culture, which was fairly tolerant of homosexuality. Later, under Christian emperors, Rome became extremely intolerant -- treating homosexuality as a crime and doling out "exquisite punishment" for it (see the edicts of Constantius II and Constans, and the Theodosian Code). As Rome became less politically correct and more hostile to homosexuality, it became weaker and weaker. So, Carson's idea isn't just out of left field -- it's contrary to the most basic understanding anyone who'd studied Roman history would have.

I guess it's possible to be a smart surgeon and yet a great idiot in other areas. Perhaps Carson should keep that in mind and at least try to do some remedial reading on other topics before publicly making claims about them. It would be like me making public pronouncements on the efficacy of a certain surgical procedure without even bothering to crack a book on the topic.
 

Barbella

Senator
I know that Arkady must be bright in some areas. You don't graduate law school and have a successful career without some native intelligence. But the weird crap that pops out of that guy's mouth is awfully hard to square with the idea of an educated person.

Rome's decline can be attributed to social decay, cultural decay, and moral decay. Three important trends demonstrate social decay. They are "the crisis of lawlessness," the "loss of economic discipline," and "rising bureaucracy."

Four important trends demonstrate cultural decay. They are the "decline of education," the "weakening of cultural foundations," the "loss of respect for tradition," and the "increase in materialism."

Three important trends demonstrate moral decay. They are the "rise in immorality," the "decay of religious belief," and the "devaluing of human life."
http://www.leaderu.com/common/nationsdie.html

Welcome to "Progressive" America, 2014.
 
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Spamature

President
Your source has an ulterior motive.


Probe Ministries is a non-profit corporation whose mission is to reclaim the primacy of Christian thought and values in Western culture through media, education, and literature. In seeking to accomplish this mission, Probe provides perspective on the integration of the academic disciplines and historic Christianity.
 

Fast Eddy

Mayor
The Roman Empire failed because they kept voting themselves money. They ran out of it and it collapsed. The moral decay was a symptom of the time, because of all the easy money excesses. What Obama is doing is exactly like what rome did. O has set us on a coarse of failure.
 
I know that Ben Carson must be bright in some areas. You don't graduate med school and have a successful medical career without some native intelligence. But the weird crap that pops out of that guy's mouth is awfully hard to square with the idea of an educated person. For example, he is attributing the fall of the Roman Empire to political correctness and gay marriage.

http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2014-10-15/carsons-longshot-presidential-bid-suddenly-looks-a-lot-more-realistic
http://mediamatters.org/blog/2013/03/29/ben-carson-marriage-equality-could-destroy-amer/193345

Roman history is a hobby of mine and I can't say I recall any historian ever linking the fall of Rome to political correctness or gay marriage. There are all sorts of theories, stemming from lead poisoning and epidemics to systematic economic breakdowns and economic inequality. The most famous historian of the Fall, though, was Gibbon, and his take on the decline of Rome was almost 180-degrees removed from Carson's. In Gibbon's view, Christianity was the main culprit. As Christianity became more dominant, Rome became less able to incorporate other people into its empire successfully (the insistence on just one God means conquered people are expected to give up their faiths), and the nation became sapped of the will for greatness in this world, as it focused increasingly on mumbo jumbo about the next world.

The late Roman empire is about as far from "politically correct" as it's possible to be. And it actually grew MORE hostile to homosexuality later in the era. Early on, they were more influenced by Hellenistic culture, which was fairly tolerant of homosexuality. Later, under Christian emperors, Rome became extremely intolerant -- treating homosexuality as a crime and doling out "exquisite punishment" for it (see the edicts of Constantius II and Constans, and the Theodosian Code). As Rome became less politically correct and more hostile to homosexuality, it became weaker and weaker. So, Carson's idea isn't just out of left field -- it's contrary to the most basic understanding anyone who'd studied Roman history would have.

I guess it's possible to be a smart surgeon and yet a great idiot in other areas. Perhaps Carson should keep that in mind and at least try to do some remedial reading on other topics before publicly making claims about them. It would be like me making public pronouncements on the efficacy of a certain surgical procedure without even bothering to crack a book on the topic.
He's just playing to the undereducated mob that is the base of the GOP. They really don't give a rat's ass if Mr Carson is right or not, they only care about whether or not he's blaming societies ills on the dreaded "other". Similar MO to fascists.
 

Arkady

President
The Roman Empire failed because they kept voting themselves money. They ran out of it and it collapsed. The moral decay was a symptom of the time, because of all the easy money excesses. What Obama is doing is exactly like what rome did. O has set us on a coarse of failure.
I recommend actually reading some history, then re-engaging with this topic. Any sentence that starts with "The Roman Empire failed because they kept voting..." is going to be wrong. It'll be more than just wrong. It'll act as a sign that says, "Hey, look here, a dimwit wants to chime in on the subject of Rome without ever having cracked a book on the subject."

By the time the Western Roman Empire fell, the voting had been largely ceremonial for centuries. From about the time of Diocletian, the Senate was basically irrelevant, and certainly played no meaningful role in "voting themselves money." The Western Roman Empire didn't fall for almost 200 years after Diocletian. The late Empire was an autocracy. If you want to find what led to the fall of the Roman Empire, it isn't going to have a damned thing to do with voting.
 

JuliefromOhio

President
Supporting Member
righties now have Ben Carson, Mike Huckabee and their evangelical nitwits like Tony Perkins declaring that same-sex marriage will be our downfall.

now we also know that the GOP establishment wants the base to just shut up about gays and same sex marriage.

I ask PJ cons, which narrative will win out.... for 2016?
 

Barbella

Senator
righties now have Ben Carson, Mike Huckabee and their evangelical nitwits like Tony Perkins declaring that same-sex marriage will be our downfall.

now we also know that the GOP establishment wants the base to just shut up about gays and same sex marriage.

I ask PJ cons, which narrative will win out.... for 2016?
No one knows for sure what the issue will be for 2016... but for 2014, it seems to be

  1. the economy (88%)
  2. the availability of good jobs (86%)
  3. the way the federal government is working (81%)
  4. the situation with Islamic militants in Iraq and Syria (78%)
  5. equal pay for women (75%) and
  6. the federal budget deficit (73%)
http://www.gallup.com/poll/178268/voters-give-gop-edge-handling-top-issues.aspx
 

Drumcollie

* See DC's list of Kook posters*
What did Ben Carson try to tell people he didnt know the word for something In Austrian? LOL the democratic who has Joe Biden as his V.P. is going to call someone silly...You will never have an edge on this conversation about Ben Carson being silly if Joe Biden is the V.P.
 

Drumcollie

* See DC's list of Kook posters*
righties now have Ben Carson, Mike Huckabee and their evangelical nitwits like Tony Perkins declaring that same-sex marriage will be our downfall.

now we also know that the GOP establishment wants the base to just shut up about gays and same sex marriage.

I ask PJ cons, which narrative will win out.... for 2016?
I am not sure exactly what their position was...but the way the Democrats have been segregating people into groups...GLBT, Minorities...ect...and making laws for each group is a downfall. The one thing that would hurt Democrats if these people realize they are American citizens first and treat themselves as such.

Which wins?..well were are not winning with the Obama narrative...people are more divided under the Obama leadership.
 

JuliefromOhio

President
Supporting Member
No one knows for sure what the issue will be for 2016... but for 2014, it seems to be

  1. the economy (88%)
  2. the availability of good jobs (86%)
  3. the way the federal government is working (81%)
  4. the situation with Islamic militants in Iraq and Syria (78%)
  5. equal pay for women (75%) and
  6. the federal budget deficit (73%)
http://www.gallup.com/poll/178268/voters-give-gop-edge-handling-top-issues.aspx
you misunderstood. I gave the 2 positions in the republican party on same-sex marriage and asked which narrative on same-sex marriage will prevail. want to try again?
 

JuliefromOhio

President
Supporting Member
I am not sure exactly what their position was...but the way the Democrats have been segregating people into groups...GLBT, Minorities...ect...and making laws for each group is a downfall. The one thing that would hurt Democrats if these people realize they are American citizens first and treat themselves as such.

Which wins?..well were are not winning with the Obama narrative...people are more divided under the Obama leadership.
I'm asking which position the republican party will take on same-sex marriage, for or against. want to answer the question?
 

Barbella

Senator
you misunderstood. I gave the 2 positions in the republican party on same-sex marriage and asked which narrative on same-sex marriage will prevail. want to try again?
Naw... YOU misunderstood. No one really cares enough about same sex marriage to make it a deciding issue in the presidential election. The points I gave you are much, much more important to the majority of Americans.
 

Jen

Senator
Naw... YOU misunderstood. No one really cares enough about same sex marriage to make it a deciding issue in the presidential election. The points I gave you are much, much more important to the majority of Americans.
Democrats care enough to PRETEND and REPORT that same sex marriage is important to Republicans. And they aren't afraid to lie in that pretense and reporting.
 

Fast Eddy

Mayor
I recommend actually reading some history, then re-engaging with this topic. Any sentence that starts with "The Roman Empire failed because they kept voting..." is going to be wrong. It'll be more than just wrong. It'll act as a sign that says, "Hey, look here, a dimwit wants to chime in on the subject of Rome without ever having cracked a book on the subject."

By the time the Western Roman Empire fell, the voting had been largely ceremonial for centuries. From about the time of Diocletian, the Senate was basically irrelevant, and certainly played no meaningful role in "voting themselves money." The Western Roman Empire didn't fall for almost 200 years after Diocletian. The late Empire was an autocracy. If you want to find what led to the fall of the Roman Empire, it isn't going to have a damned thing to do with voting.

Any dumb ass knows that those in power voted to give the people more to stay in power, just like today. Its like today the Democrats vote to keep handing out the benefits and the people just go along and don't rock the boat. God your one ignorant human being.
 

JuliefromOhio

President
Supporting Member
Naw... YOU misunderstood. No one really cares enough about same sex marriage to make it a deciding issue in the presidential election. The points I gave you are much, much more important to the majority of Americans.
so that means Ben Carson will have to shut up about same-sex marriage if he wants to be considered by the GOP base as a 2016 GOP presidential candidate. :)
 

gigi

Mayor
Your source has an ulterior motive.

Probe Ministries is a non-profit corporation whose mission is to reclaim the primacy of Christian thought and values in Western culture through media, education, and literature. In seeking to accomplish this mission, Probe provides perspective on the integration of the academic disciplines and historic Christianity.
So what's the ulterior motive? Can you show us where, when, and how they're lying?
 

gigi

Mayor
righties now have Ben Carson, Mike Huckabee and their evangelical nitwits like Tony Perkins declaring that same-sex marriage will be our downfall.

now we also know that the GOP establishment wants the base to just shut up about gays and same sex marriage.

I ask PJ cons, which narrative will win out.... for 2016?
Who knows? But the bigger question is.....when marriage between same gender partners is legal all over the country, what group will the left exploit next?

“I believe that marriage is the union between a man and a woman. Now, for me as a Christian — for me — for me as a Christian, it is also a sacred union. God’s in the mix.” - April 17, 2008, while running for president, defining marriage at the Saddleback Presidential Forum.

And you voted for him, didn't you?
 
i gave this a like, Ark.

Ben Carson seems to believe the path to the white house is through social issues - gay marriage, abortion, creationism in school, etc.

he should get himself a laptop and google "poll - top 10 public concerns".

i am uninterested in a candidate who thinks his highest duty is deciding who can get married - or personally approving each ISIS bombing target.
 
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