So nine eurozone nations had their credit downgraded today...

[Lukey]

France lost its (coveted) AAA rating (following the US last year as a major economy dropping below AAA). Does the left still expect us to believe this has nothing to do with the progressive policies they have pursued for the past 70 years? Is it just a coincidence that all these countries have huge, unionized bureaucracies, declining competitiveness due to big government anti-capitalist regulations and lavish social welfare benefits? Does anyone in their right mind still believe we can tax our way out of this problem???

 

[Barbella]

Lefties (in their amazing wisdom): "What's that got to do with US? It's hopeless, I'm telling ya....HOPELESS.

 

[lupehernandezdepedajack]

Its amazing how out of control debt will ruin your credit.Someone should realize this

 

[Lukey]

Its amazing how out of control debt will ruin your credit.Someone should realize this

Yes, someone should do a "sophisticated" study to examine this issue, because as our left wing intelligentsia will tell us, such "simplistic" reasoning just isn't good enough. The true facts that these "complex analyses" will reveal is that it (you guessed it) we just haven't spent enough on these progressive programs and projects.

 

[degsme]

France lost its (coveted) AAA rating (following the US last year as a major economy dropping below AAA). Does the left still expect us to believe this has nothing to do with the progressive policies they have pursued for the past 70 years? Is it just a coincidence that all these countries have huge, unionized bureaucracies, declining competitiveness due to big government anti-capitalist regulations and lavish social welfare benefits? .

Again, Mu. As you you presume as fact things that aren't true.

As you well know coincidence isn't even correlation much less causation.

So tell us, what is the RISK that the bond rating agencies are concerned about?

Is it

• The risk of Greece failing on her bond obligations and nothing else
• France and Switzerland growing at annualized growth rates similar to the USA from 2001-2008 http://www.tradingeconomics.com/france/gdp-growth
• Germany growing at an annualized growth rate 35% HIGHER than the USA from 2001-2008 http://www.tradingeconomics.com/germany/gdp-growth
• The Union benefits in the above nations
• The risk of Greece failing on her bond obligations causing
  • The largest French and German banks to fail due to their risk exposure to greek Sovereign debt http://www.investmentu.com/2011/June/european-sovereign-debt-spreads.html
  • Forcing France and Germany to bail out those banks
  • Resulting in France and Germany kicking Greece out of the EuroZone
  • Leading to a crisis of the Euro and a collapse of the Euro and its concomittent financial mess

But of course it is B, C and D... after all that's the SIMPLE explanation...

 

[Lukey]

Again, Mu. As you you presume as fact things that aren't true.

As you well know coincidence isn't even correlation much less causation.

So tell us, what is the RISK that the bond rating agencies are concerned about?

Is it

• The risk of Greece failing on her bond obligations and nothing else
• France and Switzerland growing at annualized growth rates similar to the USA from 2001-2008 http://www.tradingeconomics.com/france/gdp-growth
• Germany growing at an annualized growth rate 35% HIGHER than the USA from 2001-2008 http://www.tradingeconomics.com/germany/gdp-growth
• The Union benefits in the above nations
• The risk of Greece failing on her bond obligations causing
  • The largest French and German banks to fail due to their risk exposure to greek Sovereign debt http://www.investmentu.com/2011/June/european-sovereign-debt-spreads.html
  • Forcing France and Germany to bail out those banks
  • Resulting in France and Germany kicking Greece out of the EuroZone
  • Leading to a crisis of the Euro and a collapse of the Euro and its concomittent financial mess

But of course it is B, C and D... after all that's the SIMPLE explanation...

The risk the ratings agencies are worried about is the failure of modern socialist democracy. Costs for social welfare spending outstrip projections as economies stagnate under the weight of anti-capitalist economic policy, leading to (what they fear is) permanent decline in economic growth rates, higher structural unemployment, which then leads to higher spending on social welfare that leads to even more anti-capitalist policy which leads to even lower growth rates, which leads to even more debt...etc.

IOW, an economic death spiral al a certain nations in the Eurozone and certain states and municipalities in America, and coming soon to a certain superpower near you. Do you really think the Greek debt (alone) is enough to bring down the entire Eurozone? European banks hold about $52 billion in Greek public debt. If you include their private debt it is still only $136 billion. That is one month's deficit under Obamanomics. The problem is that the rate of growth of public debt throughout the developed economies is too high relative to long term growth prospects. That's the "simple" answer. It is headed toward either default or devaluation, take your pick. And either way the ratings agencies are correct to be downgrading developed nations' sovereign debt.

 

[degsme]

The risk the ratings agencies are worried about is the failure of modern socialist democracy.

]
Nope. Because modern socialist democracy is at no more risk today than 6 mos ago, 12 mos ago and at a LOT LESS risk than 18-24 mos ago. And yet when it was at HIGHER RISK there was no downgrade.

Again what has changed?
is it
Growth Rates?
Deficit Rates?
Benefit Rates?

Nope. The thing that has changed is the exposure to Greek Sovereign Debt by the major banks in the most prosperous nations. There is no "economic death spiral".

Do you really think the Greek debt (alone) is enough to bring down the entire Eurozone

Kicking Greece out of the Eurozone would destabilize the Eurozone and prior attempts at currency union in Europe have all failed along exactly this vector.

Its not about the deficti

 

[Cicero]

You are expecting people that went into a frenzy of worship over an unqualified first term U.S. senator to now demonstrate common sense and a fundamental grasp of cause and effect reality? That's just not gonna happen.

 

[degsme]

You are expecting people that went into a frenzy of worship over an unqualified first term U.S. senator to now demonstrate common sense and a fundamental grasp of cause and effect reality? That's just not gonna happen.

Got anything besides name calling?

 

[Lukey]

]
Nope. Because modern socialist democracy is at no more risk today than 6 mos ago, 12 mos ago and at a LOT LESS risk than 18-24 mos ago. And yet when it was at HIGHER RISK there was no downgrade.

Again what has changed?
is it
Growth Rates?
Deficit Rates?
Benefit Rates?

Nope. The thing that has changed is the exposure to Greek Sovereign Debt by the major banks in the most prosperous nations. There is no "economic death spiral".


Kicking Greece out of the Eurozone would destabilize the Eurozone and prior attempts at currency union in Europe have all failed along exactly this vector.

Its not about the deficti

What has changed is the prospect of robust economic recovery (and it fades more every time these leaders speak about the crisis because no one is addressing the real problem, the unsustainable progressive social welfare economic model).

 

[Cicero]

Got milk? That was an annoying commercial wasn't it?

 

[degsme]

Got milk? That was an annoying commercial wasn't it?

Not as annoying as dimwits who seem to think that name calling with no actual facutal content is contribution to a civil discussion

 

[Lapcat]

Amazing. This guy sees name-calling (not dead people) .....

in EVERY post that cons make.....even while toting around the rather excessive and UGLY baggage of having been suspended TWICE.....

and even while he preaches to us....lol.

Got milk? That was an annoying commercial wasn't it?

 

[Jen]

Hrrrummmphhh!! That's not fair, Lukey! Everyone KNOWS that the world's bad economy is the fault of the USA!! If anyone should have their credit downgraded it should be the USA!!

(sarcasm off):wink:

 

[degsme]

hrrrummmphhh!! That's not fair, lukey! Everyone knows that the world's bad economy is the fault of the usa!! If anyone should have their credit downgraded it should be the usa!!

(sarcasm off):wink:

huh???

 

[degsme]

Amazing. This guy sees name-calling (not dead people) .....

You do realize that Ad hominem is synonymous with name calling right?

And again simple question to you Lapcat

is your post here an example of you trying to contribute factual information to a civil discussion?

 

[Lapcat]

Here's a question for you. Is YOUR post an example of you trying to bait cons into responding in such a manner that they (hopefully by you) get enough infractions to ALSO be suspended, much like YOU have been twice already?

My guess is...

you betcha!

Psst! It ain't working!

You do realize that Ad hominem is synonymous with name calling right?

And again simple question to you Lapcat

is your post here an example of you trying to contribute factual information to a civil discussion?

 

[degsme]

What has changed is the prospect of robust economic recovery

No there wasn't a prospect of a "robust recovery" when the USA was losing 820,000 jobs/mo and we had an unprecedented banking lockup.

Again. despite the biggest financial crash in the history of mankind, there was no downgrade.

BUT now that there is a real threat of Eurozone falling apart and Greece AND Italy potentially being tossed out of the Eurozone... NOW things are at greater risk.


Again, the CHANGE here is the risk of the disintegration of the common currency. The rest of the factors you cite have actually IMPROVED since the crash. So to suggest that factors that IMPROVED from a time when there was no downgrade is suddenly the cause of a downgrade is like saying they downgraded you because you got a raise.

Its just oxymoronic

 

[Lapcat]

Maybe the commercial should read...


Got meds?

LOL!

Got milk? That was an annoying commercial wasn't it?

 

[Cicero]

hahahaha! That's brilliant Lapcat!